Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Sept 25, 2004 12:55:06 GMT -5
Technically, a fetus is not a child. It's been proven that the fetus is not a concious being and cannot feel pain. If you don't like abortions, fine, you don't have to get one. And yes, women do get pregnant from rape. Their both good because if you get pregnant, you can give it up or kill it which are to good options depending on who you are In my opinion, if a woman can safely give birth to a child--or just doesn't want to "kill it" by abortion--but cannot support the baby financially, it may be better for her to carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption after birth. I'm going to be ambiguous here and say it depends on the particulars of the situation.
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Sept 25, 2004 12:56:05 GMT -5
....Allrighty, well that shuts me up, as I'd repeat everything everyone else has already said. And on abortion, I think that if a child is conceived of rape or some other unfortunate circumstance, abortion ought to be allowed. Do we want their lives ruined further? GAHG4ERBNA! How would people KNOW if the woman was ACTUALLY RAPED? We'd have to RELY ON THE HONOUR SYSTEM, or go through a lot of tests and trials to get the truth! Adoption is gonna slowly decrease, from all these people killing their child. Adoption exist because of people who can't keep their child or had a baby but want to give it up. So by killing their baby, its not helping anyone. I'm anti-abortion, and probable will always be. C: Abortions would be a GOOD thing for adoption. The more abortions, the less kids out of the systems. However, there will always be people who don't believe in abortions/give up their children/give up their children/ die and put their children in an orphanarium orphanage. However, so far (I think) the supply of orphans or adoptees is far more than the demand. So there are many children being left behind. And it would probably stay the SAME anyway! Abortion is legal, now, and there are still people who don't want to do abortions. It'd be the same. Technically, a fetus is not a child. It's been proven that the fetus is not a concious being and cannot feel pain. If you don't like abortions, fine, you don't have to get one. Antenora, you have to understand the other side---that's like saying "if you don't like murder, fine, don't kill." Most people don't like living in a world where murder is legal. And that's what they feel it is. All the scientific evidence in the WORLD won't change their steadfast belief in the bible.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Sept 25, 2004 13:11:46 GMT -5
You're right, J. But abortion is not tantamount to murder in my opinion; however, some do think it is.
Edit: On a somewhat related topic, what do you-plural think of stem-cell research? I'm in favor of it, because it could lead to finding cures for many diseases.
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Post by DrSeuss the 1st white rapper on Sept 25, 2004 13:34:13 GMT -5
I'm some what for stem cell research. But I think it will lead to more cloning, which I don't believe in.
Back to the abortion topic. Please tell me what makes killing a fetus different from killing a child? Isn't the same? Killing is killing, and thats the bottom line.
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Post by SnicketFires on Sept 25, 2004 13:40:04 GMT -5
Adoption - good. It gives the chance for other couples to raise a child, when they may not be able to themselves. It also gives a child a better chance.
Abortion - good. Really, it's the woman's choice what to do, and if she doesn't want her baby, she should be able to get an abortion.
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Post by artluvr on Sept 25, 2004 13:44:17 GMT -5
Stem cell research is good for the human race. And about cloning--you do know that approximately one out of every one hundred/thousand/ten thousand (I can't remember) clones actually works, and even then it dies in infancy or whatever. Plus, all we've cloned so far is...like...a sheep and some kittens.
Which reminds me of the inevitable "what if we clone Hitler" question. If we cloned Hitler, which we can't because he's been dead for 60+ years now and the DNA used would cause the tissue to start at the age he died at (person's lifespan is, for example, 100 years. Dies at 60 from a gunshot, clone would live 40 years) anyway, absolutely nothing would happen. We would have to replicate Germany's downward spiral and the First World War in order to turn him into the mass-murdering Jewophobe that he was. (There may be some residual craziness though.) Actually, he was a masterful orator and could prove to be a great asset if he was brought up the right way.
It'd be like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen with clones. Teddy Roosevelt + Adolf Hitler + Al Capone + Albert Einstein + Marie Curie, all fighting on the side of justice = the next big thing.
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Sept 25, 2004 13:52:46 GMT -5
I'm some what for stem cell research. But I think it will lead to more cloning, which I don't believe in. Back to the abortion topic. Please tell me what makes killing a fetus different from killing a child? Isn't the same? Killing is killing, and thats the bottom line. Because a fetus isn't really alive....
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Post by DrSeuss the 1st white rapper on Sept 25, 2004 14:05:47 GMT -5
Stem cell research would lead to more cloning, posibly better cloning, which I'm not for.
Because a fetus isn't really alive? Look at this way, if you were to let it be, and grow up, wouldn't it be a child? So if you kill it, it should still count as killing a child. My mom buys flowers all the time, and most of them are not fully developed. Some are still just a seed, but my mom still calls it a flower. So I think of the fetus as the seed, it may not be fully developed, but I still see it as a child.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Sept 25, 2004 14:12:20 GMT -5
But killing a seed is not the same thing as killing a flower, because the seed only has the genes and potential to become a flower.
I've heard about that arguement against cloning, and I agree that it's rather absurd. One aspect of genetics that confuses me a bit is how much influence genes have on your personality--in other words, is it nature or nurture that determines who you are? If I were cloned, how much would my clone have in common with me besides her appearance? Would she grow up into an occult-studying semi-goth who carries a commonplace notebook? Probably not.
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Sept 25, 2004 14:32:35 GMT -5
But killing a seed is not the same thing as killing a flower, because the seed only has the genes and potential to become a flower. I've heard about that arguement against cloning, and I agree that it's rather absurd. One aspect of genetics that confuses me a bit is how much influence genes have on your personality--in other words, is it nature or nurture that determines who you are? If I were cloned, how much would my clone have in common with me besides her appearance? Would she grow up into an occult-studying semi-goth who carries a commonplace notebook? Probably not. Also, would a clone have the same memories?
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Post by Rikku on Sept 25, 2004 19:53:57 GMT -5
I am 100% against abortion. It's taking an innocent life.
as for adoption, I think it's good. Like Dauntless said, it give the chance for parents who say can't have kids to raise one, and for a kid to start a new or better life.
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Post by Charles Vane on Sept 25, 2004 20:27:35 GMT -5
I'm pro-choice. I don't like abortions but I think it is a women's right if she wants to have one. Which is why it always annoys me when poeple say "pro-abortion".
I can understand someone being raped wanting to have an abortion but it's not the child's fault. And they still can adopt but I guess there's too much emotionally invovled there.
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Post by Freckles on Sept 25, 2004 20:39:30 GMT -5
I am 100% against abortion. It's taking an innocent life. as for adoption, I think it's good. Like Dauntless said, it give the chance for parents who say can't have kids to raise one, and for a kid to start a new or better life. I totally agree. I would feel like crap if i knew anyone who would abort there child, there innocent, and, the bible tells us it's wrong (For those who don't know, i'm christain so back off with anything anti-bible to me) I mean, if you got raped you could put it up for adoption can't you? Speaking of adoption. my Sunday School teacher is just about to adopt her 2nd child, for some reason she can't have a babie. She encoreged me so when i grow up, I'm going to adopt a baby.
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Sept 25, 2004 20:48:19 GMT -5
I totally agree. I would feel like crap if i knew anyone who would abort there child, there innocent, and, the bible tells us it's wrong (For those who don't know, i'm christain so back off with anything anti-bible to me) I mean, if you got raped you could put it up for adoption can't you? Speaking of adoption. my Sunday School teacher is just about to adopt her 2nd child, for some reason she can't have a babie. She encoreged me so when i grow up, I'm going to adopt a baby. I'd adopt, too. I think it costs a lot of money (my 5th grade teacher said that) but pregnancy is PAINFUL.
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Post by redwine with valium on Sept 25, 2004 20:55:35 GMT -5
Also, would a clone have the same memories? No, the clone would have none of the same characteristics. In fact, there's no guarantee they'd even look exactly the same. I'm going to start a seperate thread on this topic. Wow, this thread has certainly been popular, and my guess was correct. I predicted that people would overwhelmingly vote good for both, and I was right. Yay me. Me, I'm pro-adoption pro-life. Adoption is a wonderful institution when used correctly. The United States adoption system is seriously messed up, but with a lot of work we give more children then ever loving homes. I believe abortion should be illegal unless a doctor can testify that the birth would seriously endanger the life of the mother, in which case it should be the mother's choice. Even in the instance of rape, I see no reason to murder the baby for the crime of the father. And yes, it's murder. A few months doesn't make it any less a baby. If you can't handle the baby, put it up for adoption. In all cases except rape, which I already discussed, if you're mature enough to have sex you're mature enough to at least give birth to the baby you created. And make sure the father pays child support to. Sorry, I hate deadbeat parents.
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