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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 14, 2012 8:28:02 GMT -5
I wonder how we should read the "Walleye" of the dedication, also? Is there some clue or hidden meaning there? Apparently it's a kind of fish...? Given that this is Stain'd by the Sea, my guess is that it's a pun in the same way "Moxie" and "Hangfire" are puns. The name also has the benefit of containing the word "eye," which is presumably the insignia Lemony despises, and of course we've seen walls covered in eyes in ASOUE. "Double-crossings" in the plural interests me; we know of one potential double-crossing, but exactly how many times will this occur in WCTBATH? And on which side? As for the art - I agree it's brilliant, particularly if we're getting it in full every other chapter. I'm not too disappointed about the text/art blend Helquist admired, as ATWQ is being capitalized more as an investigation than it is tales of woe. Consequently, I find Seth's work in some ways more fitting here.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 14, 2012 9:06:40 GMT -5
The comments about the police made me think - were the police called, and Theodra sent in their place?
Speaking of, Theodroa is a bit rubbish isn't she?
Moxie seems to be a very interesting charcter. Reminds me of Duncan...
And Chapter Four seemed very short, and the ending was rather abrupt - any chance its not the full thing?
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Post by Dante on Aug 14, 2012 9:27:47 GMT -5
The comments about the police made me think - were the police called, and Theodra sent in their place? It doesn't sound like it, and I think this is one thing that's meant to be suspicious - Sallis doesn't have a good explanation for why she didn't call the police rather than a volunteer, and given the way the rest of the chapter muddies the waters in regards to the history of the statue and the families around it, I think that's probably deliberate. Remember, the beginning of Chapter One strongly implies that the person who reports the statue as stolen never owned it in the first place. If that was the case, the police obviously could not be called on. She honestly does, more and more, remind me of Olaf but minus the evil. So many of her lines I can imagine in his mouth. Even if it's not all there is, it's all they gave us.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Aug 14, 2012 9:37:39 GMT -5
She honestly does, more and more, remind me of Olaf but minus the evil. So many of her lines I can imagine in his mouth. Ooh - maybe they're related. And also, Prosper reminds me ot a certain half of the sinister duo
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Post by B. on Aug 14, 2012 9:43:08 GMT -5
She honestly does, more and more, remind me of Olaf but minus the evil. So many of her lines I can imagine in his mouth. I think somebody did speculate that she could be his mother or something.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Aug 14, 2012 10:50:37 GMT -5
I wonder how we should read the "Walleye" of the dedication, also? Is there some clue or hidden meaning there? Apparently it's a kind of fish...? Walleyed or wall-eyed, the adjectival form of the name, also means the following according to [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/walleyed#English ]Wiktionary[/url]: having eyes with a pale coloured iris having eyes of different colour suffering from exotropia [eyes pointing in different directions] (of fish) having bulging eyes
She honestly does, more and more, remind me of Olaf but minus the evil. So many of her lines I can imagine in his mouth. And it's becoming quite clear that she suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Now for my comments on the chapter! I read five chapters of a book about a boy named Johnny. He lived in America when America was still England. One day he burned his hand and was no longer able to work as a silversmith, which sounded like a miserable line of work anyway, so he took an interest in local politics.
This seems like an allusion... A Google search for "Johnny silversmith" suggests it's almost certainly this book. Mrs. Murphy Sallis: To me, the name Murphy immediately suggests "Murphy's Law"; for "Sallis" there are lots of Google results, including a writer of crime fiction. Possibly an allusion? Mallahan: May or may not be a specific allusion, because again there are lots of Google results, none of which seem immediately relevant (certainly not the Obama delegate or the telecommunications executive). The name suggests "malicious" and similar words by its prefix-- could that be a clue, or a red herring? Either way, I think it was chosen for its sound rather than any allusive meaning. "I just want the statue back with its rightful owner," the old woman said hastily. Why not just say "I want the statue back" if it's indeed her own? Is this equivocation (or a careless confession) implying that she's not the rightful owner herself? Remember the beginning of Chapter One. The creature looked like a seahorse like a hawk looks like a chicken. A lovely simile, and could it suggest a connection to The Maltese Falcon, which I think Dante has mentioned as something the book might allude to? Moxie: as previously mentioned when it came up in the educator's guide thread, this name means "courage, pluck." It seems appropriate to her character. Their color was pretty interesting, too, a dark gray, like they'd once been black but somebody had washed them or perhaps had made her cry for a long time. Another rather poetic description, and a fine example of the stained/fading motif this whole book has. I think we've seen the lighthouse before: The Stain'd Lighthouse: I like the ambiguity, which I see Theodora picks up on, too. Note that "Stain'd -by-the-Sea" itself is likewise ambiguous: a place named Stain'd that's by the sea, or a place that has become stained because of the sea. My mother got a letter from the city and left for a job with another newspaper.
The Daily Punctilio, perhaps? Legend has it that hundreds of years ago Lady Mallahan slew the Bombinating Beast on one of her voyages. Could this, perhaps, be the "other angle" on the Great Unknown that Handler promised? stuffed Bombinating Beasts: I have no insightful comments here, but I want one of those. The Beast is adorable. Also, presumably the merchandise includes this: Hard to tell in such a small picture, but I think Prosper Lost just might be this guy: Also, note the shape of that lamp next to the armchair at lower right-- it's an octopus! Another octopus can be seen on the vase on the desk; it reminds me of ancient Greek vases with a similar design. Speaking of which, the armless-woman statue is probably a reference to the Venus de Milo, though it clearly fits the establishment's name. Prosper Lost: A pretty name; sounds vaguely Puritan to me. a light fixture shaped like a complicated star: I wonder if this could be relevant somehow-- an allusion to some symbol, maybe?
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Post by B. on Aug 14, 2012 11:10:18 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of wood it's made out of, if Handler had a kind of wood in mind at all. African Blackwood is my guess.
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Post by Dante on Aug 14, 2012 11:21:53 GMT -5
Walleyed or wall-eyed, the adjectival form of the name, also means the following according to [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/walleyed#English ]Wiktionary [/url]: having eyes with a pale coloured iris having eyes of different colour suffering from exotropia [eyes pointing in different directions] (of fish) having bulging eyes
[/quote] Are there any characters who canonically have different eye colours? ...Are there any characters other than Moxie who canonically have eye colours at all? This seems like an allusion... A Google search for "Johnny silversmith" suggests it's almost certainly this book. That was my immediate assumption, incidentally, and I know nothing about Johnny Tremain. A clue, I think. Although even if she's not the rightful owner herself, she might be working with or for them. Nice catch - shame that Moxie's mother is unlikely to be anyone we know about. I still think that was misinterpreted and not a promise, but either way, it's a legend, and there's little we can trust on face value in ATWQ, even in just the first four chapters. If you look at my bigger picture, Prosper Lost has a few different characteristics to this chap - but he couldn've been redrafted.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 14, 2012 11:47:24 GMT -5
I wonder how we should read the "Walleye" of the dedication, also? Is there some clue or hidden meaning there? Apparently it's a kind of fish...? Walleyed or wall-eyed, the adjectival form of the name, also means the following according to [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/walleyed#English ]Wiktionary [/url]: having eyes with a pale coloured iris having eyes of different colour suffering from exotropia [eyes pointing in different directions] (of fish) having bulging eyes
[/quote] Moxie's eyes rather fit the first description. Speculation: Walleye is a codename for one of her relatives. Pale eyes are hereditary, and Lemony is sending the transcript to a journalistic publication in hopes his tale might be told to the general public. If Prosper Lost is the man from "How can we stop him?" and if the subject line is in fact referring to the illustration, we might even be able to say he has motive for ... for whatever misdeed Lemony feels the need to stop him. He once prospered, but now all is lost, for instance. The name might also lead to a subtle callback to The Prospero. A chandelier, perhaps?
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Post by Hermes on Aug 14, 2012 14:35:02 GMT -5
Well, well, well. Well.
Some thoughts:
Yes, Theodora does seem to resemble Olaf, and he speculation that she might be his mother is quite plausible. Oh dear: I had always supposed that O's mother's name began with F.
Along the same lines, could Moxie be the Quagmires' mother?
Moxie's eyes are interesting, but so, from a rather different point of view, is L's looking into them. Could this lead to a crisis in his relationship with Beatrice? 'You spent too much time looking into that girl's eyes, and that, Lemony, is why we broke up.'
I don't think it's particularly surprising that Mrs Sallis says 'to its rightful owner' - that explains her motivation; it's just because she's the rightful owner that she wants it back. But the way the phrase is then repeated, and Lemony seems to draw attention to it, is striking - perhaps a crisis will arise when L realises she isn't its rightful owner (to whom he promised to return it).
Why did Theodora think her client was a man? Has Mrs Sallis killed her husband, or something, since she was first contacted?
'When America was still England'- he seems to be a bit confused about history (just as he is about biology,as we know from ASOUE).
The Great Unknown - I agree that strictly speaking Snicket's statement didn't refer to the Great Unknown but to the great unknown - the mysteriousness of life, as symbolised by the question mark in the water at the end of The End. But since at every step this story turns out to have more to do with ASOUE than we originally thought, it doesn't seem to me impossible that there will turn out to be a link with the underwater being as well.
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Post by Dante on Aug 14, 2012 14:45:32 GMT -5
Why did Theodora think her client was a man? Has Mrs Sallis killed her husband, or something, since she was first contacted? I think this slip-up is probably important and points to some secret, but I wonder if "Mrs. Murphy Sallis" is an instance of a woman using her husband's full name to introduce herself, as was more common a considerable amount of time ago. In other words, Murphy Sallis is actually her husband and her own full name is Mrs. [something] Sallis.
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Q.R.V.
Formidable Foreman
Better paranoid than dead.
Posts: 149
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Post by Q.R.V. on Aug 14, 2012 16:57:13 GMT -5
I read Johnny Tremain back in elementary school. Interestingly, after Johnny spills molten silver on his hand and loses his silversmith job, he gets another job working for a newspaper office that is in fact just a cover for a secret organization, the Sons of Liberty (these are the guys who dumped tea in Boston Harbor, if you remember any American Revolution history). Possible Mallahan-VFD connection, anyone? Although that would make it odd that Theodora didn't know them. Considering the Mallahans' obsession with the Bombinating Beast, could the tower with the clanging bell in Chapter 2 be their lighthouse (or maybe another tower owned by them), and the ringing clock-beast in "When does the bell ring" be this bell? That would explain why the quote about pressure is attached to the image. I wonder what kind of wood it's made out of, if Handler had a kind of wood in mind at all. African Blackwood is my guess. Ebony is another shiny, dark, fairly valuable wood, one that is popular for statues and walking sticks. If Prosper Lost is the villainous fellow from "How can we stop him", then his comment "Everybody does something wrong at one time or another" in the educator's guide could mean that he is a Fernald-type character: yeah, I'm working for the bad guys, but everyone is just a chef's salad anyway.
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Post by B. on Aug 15, 2012 2:17:06 GMT -5
The guy at the bottom left of this image looks a little like Prosper Lost.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Aug 15, 2012 4:13:13 GMT -5
I also wondered about the "rightful owner". Mrs. Sallis also said that the Mallahans and the Sallis are enemies, Moxie says they are friends. Maybe Moxie is right and the woman is not really Mrs. Murphy Sallis, she just wants to have the statue. (?)
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Post by Dante on Aug 15, 2012 4:31:52 GMT -5
I think these are exactly the kinds of possibilities we should prepare ourselves for, anka.
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