Antigone
Reptile Researcher
I am big; it's the pictures that got small.
Posts: 32
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 13:47:36 GMT -5
Post by Antigone on Apr 1, 2013 13:47:36 GMT -5
Okay, so I've been reading and re-reading WCTBATH, and an idea came to me. The idea is that Ink (The Incredibly Deadly Viper) could be connected to the B.B. in some way? Perhaps the B.B. is a sea snake, and Hangfire's plan is to breed a colony of B.B's (Great Unknown's, if indeed the B.B. is proven to be the Great Unknown) for use in V.F.D. operations, much the same as the V.F.D. eagles? And one of the offspring is Ink. I know that the idea of Hangfire's plan being to breed B.B's has been tossed about before, but I can't recall anyone linking it in with Ink. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 13:50:31 GMT -5
Post by Isadora Is a Door on Apr 1, 2013 13:50:31 GMT -5
Thoughts? That is a fantastic idea!
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 14:17:32 GMT -5
Post by Christmas Chief on Apr 1, 2013 14:17:32 GMT -5
Ink as a substance will certainly feature prominently in this series, probably more so in the upcoming installment than in the last. I therefore wouldn't be surprised to see an allusion to the Incredibly Deadly Viper someplace, given its history and conspicuous nickname. It might be worth mentioning that Dr. Montgomery found the snake in a "southwest forest" - so its pre-discovery appearance may be restricted. As for its relationship with the Bombinating Beast, I'm not sure how much animation is appropriate for the creature. "Breeding" would imply that the Beast is a living organism, and it's only known that Hangfire wants the statue (he's not even interested in the other gimcracks housed in the lighthouse, if he is indeed aware of their existence). Of course, he could still have an interest in a living Beast, but then I'm not sure I understand the connection between the Great Unknown and the Beast and the Incredibly Deadly Viper. Is the statement that the former two are synonymous, and Ink is an incarnation of the Great Unknown?
|
|
Antigone
Reptile Researcher
I am big; it's the pictures that got small.
Posts: 32
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 14:26:09 GMT -5
Post by Antigone on Apr 1, 2013 14:26:09 GMT -5
Couldn't the forest be the Clusterous Forest in Stain'd-by-the-sea?
What I mean to say is that the B.B. is a living creature, that it is a sea snake and that it may be the G.U., the same species as Ink, and that Hangfire wants to breed the snakes from the 'Alpha' snake, the B.B.as it were, in order to create a fleet of snakes. If my theory's right, he fails and Ink's the only offspring left?
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 14:39:04 GMT -5
Post by Hermes on Apr 1, 2013 14:39:04 GMT -5
Ink as a substance will certainly feature prominently in this series, probably more so in the upcoming installment than in the last. I therefore wouldn't be surprised to see an allusion to the Incredibly Deadly Viper someplace, given its history and conspicuous nickname. It might cast new light on the exchange 'What's the source of our troubles?' 'Ink.' in TE. But doesn't Monty claim to have discovered it recently? - and yet later it turns out that Bertrand and Beatrice knew it fifteen years earlier. Either Monty is concealing part of the truth, or it had other adventures before he discovered it. It has been speculated before that he wants the statue because it can be used to summon the living beast.
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 15:49:34 GMT -5
Post by Dante on Apr 1, 2013 15:49:34 GMT -5
Any solution which rests on the explanation, in detail, of what an entity called "the Great Unknown" which looks like a giant question mark actually is is inherently flawed. I'd hope it would be obvious why that's the case, but people didn't seem to get it after TGG, and they don't get it here, either.
I agree that Ink - although the Baudelaire parents actually called it "Inky" - clearly has figurative links to the Great Unknown via the Bombinating Beast, but they may be entirely coincidental. Back when they were introduced, Ink was a black snake and the Great Unknown was a big shadow. The former never made a question mark shape, and while it could swim, it didn't do so underwater and was clearly a terrestrial creature. Now we have the Bombinating Beast along - but that's another clearly aquatic creature and it's never once been compared to a snake and is depicted at least twice in WCTBATH as having arms.
I respect the link that's being made here, and it does seem intuitive. But I don't see how a statue is going to help Hangfire establish a breeding colony, I don't see how or why a magical immortal monster summoned by a statue would be bred when there's only one of it, and I don't see a connection between a black snake and literal ink, which is the only kind of ink that matters in ATWQ.
Even though I disagree with your theory, though, I'll give you a hand. Note how, in Chapter Three, Hangfire (in his guise as the butler) was able to communicate with birds by imitating their calls. Could he be able to imitate a snake in the same fashion and command it? Here's another one: Wouldn't it be just Snicket's brand of irony and social satire to have a terrifying legend built up around a harmless snake that just happens to be black in colour? And wouldn't this fit right into the same metaphor from The End about the unknown possibly not being frightening or dangerous just for being unknown, and actually is something to be pursued? Notice how these ideas are rooted directly in textual evidence rather than speculation.
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 16:08:20 GMT -5
Post by Hermes on Apr 1, 2013 16:08:20 GMT -5
Any solution which rests on the explanation, in detail, of what an entity called "the Great Unknown" which looks like a giant question mark actually is is inherently flawed. I'd hope it would be obvious why that's the case, but people didn't seem to get it after TGG, and they don't get it here, either. I agree that we will never find out what the Bombinating Beast/Great Unknown is. I believe that the original BB is the Great Unknown, but that doesn't mean that it actually is a beast, only that the people of Stain'd think of it as one. Still, I think these theories are useful, not as predictions of answers that will be revealed, but just as theories. Having a mysterious being at the centre of the story is surely meant to make is speculate, and these various ideas about the real nature of the GU and the relations it may have to other creatures are interesting speculations.
|
|
|
Ink?
Apr 1, 2013 18:31:18 GMT -5
Post by Christmas Chief on Apr 1, 2013 18:31:18 GMT -5
Hermes put it more concisely than I could, but to elaborate a bit: Any solution which rests on the explanation, in detail, of what an entity called "the Great Unknown" which looks like a giant question mark actually is is inherently flawed. I'd hope it would be obvious why that's the case, but people didn't seem to get it after TGG, and they don't get it here, either. While I don't disagree with this, I think it's worth considering what advantages affording further tangibility to the Great Unknown could present from a symbolic standpoint. To be sure, the GU's identity will almost certainly never be explicated in the text. However, in order to symbolize anything else, the "Great Unknown" must be known - that is, it must exist as a physical presence in the story. Its obscurity in TGG as a shadowy question mark classifies, of course; appropriately, its corporeal manifestation is as uncertain as the themes it enacts. What I understand Antigone is suggesting, though, is that the Great Unknown may further materialize itself as WCTBATH's most fantastic creature via the Incredibly Deadly Viper. Instead of asking how this might weigh on the Great Unknown's identity, then, which has its mystery established and embedded in its very name, I would ask how these speculations might bear on the Bombinating Beast's identity, which doesn't. To be fair, it does appear rather serpentine in a few depictions. And the nature of the snake lends itself well to the question mark (as opposed to, uh, other types of end punctuation). Even if there is no direct link between Ink and ink, which admittedly does strike me as tenuous at best, surely it is too early to say that literal ink is the only kind that matters in ATWQ? I would be surprised if a town seemingly basing its economy on the successful harvest of the ink it produced came to have no figurative significance at all.
|
|