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Post by Dante on Apr 8, 2014 3:17:11 GMT -5
No need to use spoiler tags any more, I think, now that a week's break since the book has been published is up. Not unless we want to use spoiler tags until the U.K. release, and that could be months away. If you're not posting in a thread specific to File Under, it would be courteous to spoiler tag anything you regard as particularly interesting or revelatory, though.
Also, Hermes, ordering File Under from the U.K. could cost you no more than the price of the book itself. I only paid over the odds for expedited delivery; Amazon.co.uk is offering it for a price cheaper than the eventual U.K. RRP will be. The real cost is the wait for it to be shipped over from America, though I was lucky enough to get in early and snatch a U.S. copy that Amazon had in this country for some reason.
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crono288
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 70
Likes: 45
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Post by crono288 on Apr 8, 2014 4:55:18 GMT -5
I'm not quite clear on this, but based on reviews and the discussion here, it sounds like there are extra "conclusions" at the end of the book that don't correspond to any of the incidents actually in the book? And what is the "Last Word"? The audiobook only featured the conclusions to the book's incidents and nothing afterward, and the Kindle edition still seems not to exist, so can anyone shed some light on this?
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Post by bandit on Apr 8, 2014 8:23:56 GMT -5
There are two extra "conclusions": one that is a transcript from a meeting at Stain'd Station, and one that is something of a Hangman puzzle. That one is titled Last Word.
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Post by Dante on Apr 8, 2014 8:46:23 GMT -5
There are two extra "conclusions": one that is a transcript from a meeting at Stain'd Station, and one that is something of a Hangman puzzle. That one is titled Last Word. ...Not quite. There are thirteen extra solutions. The last one, Last Word, is however only a series of blank spaces. I imagine that it might have been a challenge to accommodate these in the audiobook version. Are they really not there?
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Post by Hermes on Apr 8, 2014 10:38:52 GMT -5
So: there are altogether twenty-six solutions, thirteen to the mysteries contained in the book, and thirteen to other mysteries that aren't there? Is that right?
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Post by Dante on Apr 8, 2014 11:02:39 GMT -5
That is correct, yes. But the misfiled solutions are often intended to some extent to reflect the incident corresponding to the preceding solution, and also contain a few interconnections of their own, so it's a little bit complicated, which is part of what makes it satisfying.
Gosh, Hermes, I regret that you're such a spoilerhound. Finding out that 29 Myths was canon was the best bit of the book for me. You turn a page and it slaps you right in the face, it's great. So many little references to ASoUE everywhere; File Under such an enjoyable experience.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 8, 2014 14:44:39 GMT -5
Well, if I had been afraid of spoilers I would not have been able to read ASOUE until I could assemble all the books in the correct order. No doubt I would have appreciated TEE more, for instance, if I had not known that Esme was a villain before I began to read it, but needs must.
OK, it looks like I can order it. Of course, if I do so three of the five or so surviving British fans will have copies, which will reduce the incentive for publication, but such is life. It seems clear that this work is much more than a mere supplement, and is important for understanding what Snicket is up to, so I can't really do without it.
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Post by bandit on Apr 8, 2014 15:34:12 GMT -5
Wait, are you telling me that because I read the book in the style of "read a chapter, flip to the conclusion", I managed to ignore eleven separate solutions that came after the ones I read?
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emf3rd
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 40
Likes: 24
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Post by emf3rd on Apr 8, 2014 17:37:53 GMT -5
^ Yes. There were 13 'alternate' conclusions also located at the back mixed in with the 13 conclusions given.
This conversation makes this book all the better. Can't wait to reread it again!
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 8, 2014 18:38:08 GMT -5
Agreed, haha. Just read the conclusions section of the book by itself, Bandit, one page after another, because as Dante said, each "misfiled solution" corresponds in some way to the previous one.
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Post by bandit on Apr 8, 2014 18:56:48 GMT -5
I see now. After reviewing file 2 again, I see that the "conclusions" I didn't read are all similar enough to what really comes next that I never noticed them while reading the actual solution (except for the Vanished Message one and the Last Word one, which I noticed and read the first time around). This changes everything!
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Post by Dante on Apr 9, 2014 3:52:28 GMT -5
I see now. After reviewing file 2 again, I see that the "conclusions" I didn't read are all similar enough to what really comes next that I never noticed them while reading the actual solution (except for the Vanished Message one and the Last Word one, which I noticed and read the first time around). This changes everything! I think the intention is clearly that the misfiled solutions are partly missable and easy to confuse with other solutions. I and I know some other readers only gradually came to realise that there must be extra solutions because there seemed to be so many whenever I was flipping to the back for the solution to an Incident, and I dare say that's exactly what Snicket wanted to happen. Some of the misfiled solutions are clearly jokes; others I think contain hints to the background of what's happening in Stain'd - not unlike the way the U.A. and TBL were clearly optional but contained a lot of background and foreshadowing for the rest of the series. It's worthwhile not to dismiss anything in File Under out of hand.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Apr 12, 2014 13:46:14 GMT -5
So, is anyone up for analysing/interpreting the extra solutions at the end? If nobody minds, I'll have the first go at organising the new info (I hope you'll correct me if I'm asking all the wrong questions):
Deep Mine -Is Dagwood in any way related to Dagmar? We already know of thematic naming within families in the averse (take Edgar and Albert, Isadora and Duncan or Bouvard and Pecuchet), so this seems a possibility. It might, however, just as well be a red herring, considering Snicket's track record of those. -Is the corresponding incident related to Kit Snicket? We know she is doing something with tunnels at the Museum of Items, and in 'Deep Mine', “the shovels and notebooks were found by museum authorities the next morning”.
Backseat -I have nothing on this one so far. It seems a filler to me, included to make us understand the more-answers-than-questions-concept, which is also the reason for its apparent complexity. It's there to show us that sometimes it only depends on the order which is the question, and which is the answer.
Quiet Street -Some variety of sinister cohorts working in secrecy are meeting at Blotted Boulevard. In fact, so many of the kind that a sign-up sheet was required. The IS? The VFD, for that sake? -Obviously, Violetta Frogg-Drifter. Although we know that members of VFD name their children after dead associates (or associates thought dead), so at some point either Bertrand or Beatrice must have known someone else named Violet. Might this person have been involved here? Alternately, Lemony might have investigated the case because the acronym VFD was involved, but – like the Baudelaire orphans time and time again during the series – found himself at a dead end.
Beneath the Street -If Lemony is using his trademark 'Word which here means' in the usual manner, a small lizard or amphibian has been travelling through some passage marked “Drains-Leads-to-Sea” to the Clusterous Forest. Is this related to the lizards or amphibians which the Doctors Sobol tried to smuggle in 'Backseat'? -”The noises in the echoing passageway would have been carried to other underground structures, such as basements and mines.” Is this related to the “buzzing noises of natural origin” in 'Deep Mine'?
Small Courtyard -Dagwood reappears, and so does Violetta (seemingly confirmed to be a real person, although is this the same Violetta who inspired the name of ms. Fogg-Drifter?). Apparently, they are siblings, or at least share the same father (who lives in the same neighborhood - as what?) -Clinics and schools were constructed from the same material as these cobblestones, but later ruined by violent animal life. The Baudelaire orphans visit both a school and a hypnotist's clinic (or Klaus does, at least), but these can't have been the same if they were destroyed during the timeline of ATWQ.
Missing Pets -And we're back on the lizards and amphibians. Whereas 'Backseat', 'Beneath the Street' and 'Large Meal' all use "lizards and amphibians" as a coherent term, this answer clearly distinguishes between the two. We're also presented to a Mrs. Flammarion, who had apparently stolen (though this is not outright stated) some keys and a wig.
Large Meal -Apparently someone was trying to cook the lizards and amphibians? -Here's what seems to me the simplest inferrable version of the corresponding incident: A restaurant was advertising a meal as “The Meat of Lizards and Amphibians in a Simple Sauce of Unsalted Butter”, and Lemony realised that this was an impossible meal.
Other Name -Is this the reverse side of the newspaper from 'Twelve or Thirteen'? -Could the initials be 'I.S.'? Or is it perhaps a meal you would order to confirm, by initials, who you are secretly communicating with? -The villain would apparently have been warned about something at the sight of this article. Could this be a variant on the Verbal Fridge Dialogue, another food-based code we know of?
Sand and Shore -I have nothing on this.
Poor Joke -Hah, hah, hah. *cough*
Message Recorded -Who could T be? There is no T present at the transscript in TUA, nor do I remember any character suspected of VFD membership having a name beginning with T. -Q is, apparently, not a member of any (or at least this) secret organisation. But we learn from this conversation what T wants: Castanets, possibly hidden in the hat of someone supposed to be at Stain'd Station.
Nervous Wreck -There is indeed a secret message, but why have all the wrong words been eliminated?
Last Word -Nine letters. My guess is 'Ellington'. Now, whose last words would be "Ellington"? A Mr. Armstrong Feint?
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Post by Dante on Apr 13, 2014 5:07:19 GMT -5
So, is anyone up for analysing/interpreting the extra solutions at the end? If nobody minds, I'll have the first go at organising the new info (I hope you'll correct me if I'm asking all the wrong questions): Bear in mind that probably the misfiled solutions don't have any deep relation to canon; several I suspect are presented entirely to confuse somebody who's flipping through the solutions pages at random, and make it difficult to tell which solutions are real and which are irrelevant. However, I do think some contain a few hints. Dagwood I think is flat-out intended to be confused with Dagmar. Taking into account the title of the solution, its illustration, the fact that the mine was actually relevant - I think this is one of the best examples of a misleading solution, a red herring based vaguely upon the incident itself. However, the buzzing of natural origin heard in the mine will be important later. Bear in mind what "bombination" means. I'd also say it gives us a little bit of context as to the sort of thing the Doctors Sobol get up to as well as being a clear mystery solution, so yes, it's intended to confuse. In this regard, the use of "Bertram" is also meant to be confused with Bertrand of ASoUE, for that matter. It actually reads - in the way it's written, particularly the last line - like a highly conventional mystery solution, so I think it may actually be a joke that it's not actually connected to a mystery that's in the book. Though there is a motif of reptiles and amphibians that it helps to establish, and again, that may be significant. Especially their eggs. Just background fluff, I think. If it's important, it's for linking Blotted Boulevard and the presence of secret organisations in Stain'd, but I think the chief element is the gag about how many secret organisations are involved in the Averse... You're right that Violetta is intended to evoke Violet, but I don't know if I'd read it any farther. This one's very important, actually. It suggests a possible natural origin to part of the legend of the Bombinating Beast - if a buzzing sound used to be heard all around town, particularly sinister underground spaces, that could well give rise to a legend about a much larger, more sinister, and undetectable creature that makes a distinctive buzzing noise. But in fact it might have been a much smaller creature, or rather, many of them. They can live in the land or the sea, they're associated with the sinister Clusterous Forest... I think we should bear this in mind for future books, but you'd be wise to connect it with the appearance of certain creatures and fish eggs that appear in ?2. Dagwood and Violetta's reappearance is I think a kind of metajoke, a further use of the apparently significant but not actually real joke figures established in previous solutions. Although fathers, particularly fathers who know something about the local wildlife, are of course important figures in ATWQ. Oh, and incidentally... if we're talking about small plants and violent animal life, shouldn't that remind you of something from ?2 that I mentioned in regards to the previous solution? Plant and animal life linked to a very particular clinic, the Colophon Clinic? The real purpose of this is to emphasise those plot points - and to link them, together with the idea of an Inhumane Society headquarters, to a school. Let us not forget the existence of the mysterious abandoned Wade Academy in the vicinity of Stain'd. Let us not forget that the plot of ?3 will involve schools as a matter of considerable importance. What does this suggest to you? Heh, this one's mainly evoking "Pinched Creature" again, with Mrs. Flammarion as a joke character. The important part is that it continues to weigh on reptiles/lizards/amphibians. See above, but I guess it's also important in linking lizards and amphibians to the drained sea? Again, a lot of little references from across the board, I think. Don't forget the caviar, though; that could be a vital clue. It's reminding us, I believe, to question what happened to the water that was drained away from Stain'd... and possibly to think about another location mentioned in the series which became wetter and wetter over time. Simply a poor joke, yes, I agree. Well, it's not her first name, or even her first initial, but there's a character in ATWQ predominantly referred to by a name beginning with the letter T. It's also worth noting that it's not so much that Q isn't in a secret organisation, but that Q may not in fact be Q at all, but someone mistaken for Q. I think what's really important here is that we are reminded to think of both T and Q as members of the same organisation. Joke solution. Not just the fact that the coded message is that there isn't any message, but that the words that specifically say there's no message have been crossed out. Is it too great a leap of logic to infer that we shouldn't be examining these misfiled solutions too closely? "Ellington" fits, but I guess the question is why she or anyone else would be shouting it into the fog... though you do make a very important suggestion there. Of course, it's also worth remembering that "Armstrong also has nine letters.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 13, 2014 11:12:26 GMT -5
I remember commenting a long time ago that in TRR Lemony does not seem to recognise the difference between amphibians and reptiles; toads appear among the 'reptiles' at Dr Montgomery's house. Clearly he is now making up for this. (A similar case is David Lodge: in Changing Places he has identical twins of opposite sexes; in the sequel, Small World, he has a character commenting on how absurd it is to think there could be identical twins of opposite sexes.)
I think we should recognise what a great achievement of Mr Snicket's this is, smuggling secret messages under cover of an innocent book of puzzles. On a number of occasions he has said that this is what he is doing, but this time he has succeeded.
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