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Post by Songbird on Jul 1, 2015 13:33:08 GMT -5
We start when everyone is done with Part 1. I just finished it yesterday.
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Post by Songbird on Jul 3, 2015 11:56:46 GMT -5
So, what does everyone think about the first chapter? More specifically, who do you think is the narrator?
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Post by Hermes on Jul 3, 2015 14:28:32 GMT -5
Good question. DH has an interview - I think Terry has linked to it somewhere - in which he explains where he got the idea of a narrator of this sort, but he doesn't say who it is.
The most obvious answer, I guess, is that it's Daniel Handler. He lives in San Francisco, so why shouldn't he turn up at this party?
Another possibility is that it's a character from one of DH's other books - there's a definite hint, which comes up in a couple of chapters, that they're happening in the same world. Flan? Joe? Min?
One odd thing is the way that while the story seems to be happening now, it's being told some time in the future 'At the time this story takes place, the bridge was called the Bay Bridge', and so on. What do people make of that?
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Post by bandit on Jul 3, 2015 15:00:36 GMT -5
Not that I think the narrator is a little kid, but the first person thoughts at the beginning of the book reminded me of the narrator's mentality in Swinster Pharmacy. They're both kind of needlessly "snooping" in a place that they've only vaguely heard things about.
The way DH kept saying "At the time this story takes place" felt like a way to underplay the fantastical elements of the story. There's already all these references to modern technology that show we are at least in present day, but he implies that it is always in the near future from whenever you are reading it, instead of presenting the event as some sort of alternate history.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 4, 2015 9:46:56 GMT -5
Perhaps it's one of the narrators in 29 Myths, grown up. (No, I guess not. Mixing Handler and Snicket does not work.)
It strikes me that he is doing something rather similar to Snicket here; he writes most of the story as if he were omniscient, but by introducing the narrator as a character, he raises the question 'How does he [or she] know?', which wouldn't be a problem otherwise.
I was particularly struck by the bit where Phil says 'Perhaps she meant to steal another magazine', and Marina 'just looks at him', because it's such an absurd suggestion, and yet it is what actually happened. (But how does he know?)
Also, as Dante mentioned a while ago, the Octavia episode is very reminiscent of TB8 (though the explicit callback to that book comes a couple of chapters later). Did everyone get immediately what was happening? I think it took me a few paragraphs.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Jul 4, 2015 11:00:03 GMT -5
Also, as Dante mentioned a while ago, the Octavia episode is very reminiscent of TB8 (though the explicit callback to that book comes a couple of chapters later). Did everyone get immediately what was happening? I think it took me a few paragraphs. I didn't for a while, though I made the connection to TB8 (definitely my favourite non-Snicket Handler book) as well. I've either failed to notice, or just forgotten about, any explicit callback - which one is that?
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Post by Hermes on Jul 4, 2015 11:06:07 GMT -5
We're allowed to mention anything in part 1, right? So, p. 95: Amber mentions the school her stepmother wants her to transfer to, and Gwen says 'someone was murdered there'.
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Post by bandit on Jul 4, 2015 12:56:32 GMT -5
Haven't we heard somewhere that WAP was in the making since 1999 or thereabouts? It could very well have been started as a sequel to TB8, of sorts.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 4, 2015 14:39:34 GMT -5
True. Though there are other connections between Handler's books as well; Adverbs has a clear reference to TB8 (Kate and Garth), and I've heard it has a reference to to WYM as well, though I don't know the details of that.
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Post by Songbird on Jul 5, 2015 11:51:22 GMT -5
Aside from ASOUE and Why We Broke Up, I haven't read anything else Handler wrote until now. I'm probably missing some connections. Yes, you may discuss anything from part 1 so feel free to ask any additional questions. I wonder if we will meet the narrator later on, but I am always fascinated by how Handler writes from an unknown perspective.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 6, 2015 10:18:15 GMT -5
A few thoughts about chapter 2.
Daniel Handler swims. I remember it being discussed here a while ago, and one 667er getting very excited about it.
The book is full of allusions to pirate literature, but it's hard to make out just where they are. 'He was an outlaw and a rapscallion' must be one, and 'a monstrous bad of cutthroats', (honestly, computer, haven't you heard of cutthroats?) and 'no treasure will be denied us'. Perhaps we should see how many we can spot.
I like the bit about the 'fruitcake' letter. I knew a secretary rather like Levine once.
Does anyone wonder what Phil's business actually does? We know he's living beyond his means, but he must be earning something: how? His business relationship with Leonard Steed also seems iniquitous.
And the idea for the America programme sounds incredibly vague as well (that's intentional of course, but could it really be that vague?) - and Leonard already knows all about Belly Jefferson, so the idea of a programme about him would not be that surprising, one would think.
EDIT: By the way, how many of us are there here?
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Post by Sixteen on Jul 6, 2015 14:25:20 GMT -5
I read this book over a couple of days so I'll try to make sure I only talk about Part One.
Phil Needle's name is consistently written out in full. Do we think there is any significance to this?
When I read the Octavia passage I was getting confused about whether the narrator was referring to Octavia or Gwen at points. Combined with the fact that Octavia's coat looked like a cape, I was getting serious TB8 vibes. I smiled to myself once the reveal was made.
Neither Phil nor Gwen seem to be likeable characters, but that may just be me.
I enjoyed the pirate references like Leonard Steed and the Jean Bonnet home, which I took to be allusions to Stede Bonnet. There were others that I can't recall off the top of my head - did anyone else pick up on these?
EDIT: Oh yeah, Marina dated Rafael Bligh, which could be a dual reference to Rafael Sabatini and Captain Bligh of the Bounty.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 6, 2015 17:10:35 GMT -5
Yes, I noticed the 'Phil Needle' thing, but I don't know what to make of it. Perhaps he thinks of himself that way, because he identifies as a media person?
I also agree that about both Phil and Gwen being unlikeable. I have a bit of sympathy for Phil sometimes, but he is often quite absurd (in an annoying way, not an amusing way). I think Gwen is seen much more from outside than DH's other teenage characters (Flan, Min, Violet), and it's hard to sympathise with her.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 7, 2015 7:11:03 GMT -5
I can't think of much to say about Chapter 3. If we made a 667 character list for WAP, I would be Errol, of course. I can't think of any other assignments at the moment.
We're told nothing in Errol's letter is true, which implies he wasn't in the Navy - yet people come asking him to tell them about life in the Navy (unless he's making that up as well).
One thing that becomes apparent in this chapter is the way the timing is out of sync. Phil's story is just happening over one day, but Gwen's is covering a whole month, the moth leading up to that day. So it's hard to keep track of events.
I think Leonard Steed is also always referred to by both names - it's less obvious with him that with Phil Needle because he's mentioned less often. Possibly it's true of Roger Cuff too.
Why was Gwen having breakfast at six-something in the morning, seeing as she had given up swimming?
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Post by Songbird on Jul 8, 2015 13:30:22 GMT -5
When I started reading the book I associated Phil with the one in TMM so maybe that's why the last name is there?
I would have been Gwen in my teenage years without a doubt, I understand where she is coming from. As far as eating before swimming, doesn't she just have some toast? You do need to eat something before you exercise. I like the way the toast was described (don't have the book on me)
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