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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 26, 2019 14:55:30 GMT -5
What's bigger: a black hole, the TARDIS, or a Volunteer's inquiring mind? And hey, be happy, no more Poe!
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Post by Uncle Algernon on May 26, 2019 15:21:26 GMT -5
What's bigger: a black hole, the TARDIS, or a Volunteer's inquiring mind? Forgive the pedantic whovian, but by definition, you can cross the first item off that list, since a key element of how a TARDIS is made up is that it contains a black hole as a power source.
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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 26, 2019 15:53:18 GMT -5
What's bigger: a black hole, the TARDIS, or a Volunteer's inquiring mind? Forgive the pedantic whovian, but by definition, you can cross the first item off that list, since a key element of how a TARDIS is made up is that it contains a black hole as a power source. Yes, you are quite correct, fellow Whoviam here! But only a true Volunteer would spot such a thing, hence the inquiring mind is the biggest!
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Post by Foxy on May 27, 2019 8:51:13 GMT -5
The Beatrice Letters:
LS to BB #1
Letter: E
Type of Letter: folded card
Date: 3rd Period
Subject: Lemony is apologizing to Beatrice and asking her to have a root beer float with him.
Geography: East Gate
Foodology: Root beer floats
Personal Notes: If Lemony and Beatrice are still in school, is this before ATWQ?
BB to LS #1
Letter: E
Type of Letter: Crumpled paper
Date: Wednesday
Subject: Beatrice is attempting to contact Lemony in an attempt to find Violet, Klaus, and Sunny.
People:
long-distance swimmer – Aunt Josephine?
Violet Baudelaire
Klaus Baudelaire
Sunny Baudelaire
Geography:
mountains
cafeterias
13th floor of one of the nine dreariest buildings in the city
a sort of classroom
Personal Notes:
Does Lemony originally think this is Esmé pretending to be the first Beatrice Baudelaire?
Beatrice II must somehow know about the poem “My Silence Knot.”
Is Beatrice II referring to the classroom the V.F.D. students were in?
If Beatrice’s family is missing, who is making her have an early bedtime? Also, this should be a tip-off – this cannot be the children’s mother, because this person has never met Lemony, and Violet, Klaus, and Sunny exist. Beatrice I knew Lemony before she had children.
LS to BB #2
Letter: N
Type of Letter: Paper
Date: Year of the Snake
Subject: Lemony is telling Beatrice how dreadful the class he is in is and how he cannot wait for their upcoming excursion.
People:
R. – the Duchess
tedious, flat-footed instructor
O. – Count Olaf
Kit
Geography:
V.F.D. training school
cave with bats
mountains
cafeteria
ocean
Personal Notes:
Beatrice and R learn how to write coded messages in melodramatic dialogue – does this mean R was writing a coded message in TUA?
Whose automobile would Lemony and Beatrice be hiding in?
It’s really sweet that he is writing her a letter saying he misses her even though he probably sees her every day.
BB to LS #2
Letter: S
Type of Letter: paper
Date: February 28 (Daniel Handler’s birthday)
Subject: Beatrice is continuing to look for Lemony, and he is avoiding her.
People:
Violet Baudelaire
Klaus Baudelaire
Sunny Baudelaire
Geography:
thirteenth floor of one of the nine dreariest buildings in the city
a lot where something had burned down, but now plants are beginning to grow
hotels
hiding places
rental car offices
synagogues
public libraries
private libraries
restaurants
cafes
all-you-can-eat buffets
movie houses
Personal Notes:
I think the lot where the plants are beginning to grow is either the Royal Gardens, the Baudelaire Mansion, or the Hotel Denouement.
That paperweight is terrifying.
LS to BB #3
Letter: I
Type of Letter: Paper
Date: Scriabin’s Anniversary
Subject: R’s mother has died, and the times ahead will be dangerous
People:
Eleanora Poe
I – Ike Anwhistle
R – the Duchess of Winnipeg – her mother died
J – transferred to Financial Times – Jacques or Josephine?
G – new fashion editor, which means J was fashion editor before? Geraldine
Personal Notes:
The paperweight is a Lachrymose Leech.
Is the park bench referred to from the Royal Gardens, and the one later found in the Hotel D?
He doesn’t want Beatrice to have to wear the butterfly costume again – does he want her show to get cancelled?
Why does their relationship now have to be secret?
BB to LS #3
Letter: K
Type of Letter: Hand-written
Date: 4 p.m.
Subject: Beatrice went to a cave where Snicket was for a while, until he left to get a rootbeer float.
People:
shepherds
Geography:
a small cave
Personal Notes:
Where was the cave?
Beatrice II had R’s ring.
Was the eldest shepherd trying to tell Beatrice II something in Sebald code?
LS to BB #4
Letter: R
Type of Letter: typed on paper
Date: 2 weeks after my previous letter
Subject: Beatrice has been away, performing My Silence Knot, and Snicket eagerly awaits her arrival.
People:
T –
P –
Costar – Betrand
E – Esme
G – Geraldine
L – wants to be called “O”
O – wants to be called “L” – Olivia/Lulu?
Geography:
Tedia
Paltryville
the hills (Is this where Snicket went when Beatrice II was looking for him?)
Personal Notes:
Who is training the bats poorly?
There is a coaster ring on the letter. In ASOUEland, only villains don’t use coasters.
The gravity of how much Snicket loved Beatrice is hitting me.
BB to LS #4
Letter: A
Type of Letter: business letter
Date: Victoria Day Eve
Subject: Beatrice, now apparently in V.F.D. training school, has followed Snicket, and continues to attempt to contact him.
People:
flat-footed, sad man
Geography:
Business Letter Writing Class
library
park
Doldrum Drive
Personal Notes:
“wheezing from the climb” – a smoker would wheeze while climbing a few flights of stairs.
LS to BB #5
Letter: C
Type of Letter: Typed
Date: Dusk
Subject: Snicket answers the thirteen questions Beatrice asked him in her two-hundred page letter she wrote tell him she cannot marry him.
People:
R – the Duchess
Count Olaf
B – Bertrand?
enemies
actors
parents
friends
Beatrice’s father
Edgar Guest
Zilpha Keatley Snyder
M – Montgomery Montgomery
grumpy man who gets hit with a shingle and slips on a banana peel
person who talks to much
blimp operator
person who wears dagger-proof tunics
employee of dry cleaning facility
burglar (woman)
J – Josephine
C – Charles
S – Sir
N – Nero
Y –
Z
A
Guesses at Questions:
Question One:
Question Two: Do you remember the first time we met?
Question Three: Did you start all the fires The Daily Punctilio says you started?
Question Four: Do you remember reading and rereading the poem in the program of My Silence Knot and being puzzled?
Question Five: How many children do you think is the right amount to have?
Question Six: What is a Brae-man?
Question Seven: What is a Baticeer?
Question Eight: What is an anagram?
Question Nine: Do you love me?
Question Ten:
Question Eleven: What might be coded?
Question Twelve: Who are the children in your family?
Question Thirteen:
Personal Notes:
This letter is devastating.
“Are you certain your co-star is one of us?” I think Beatrice broke up with Lemony at least in part because she fell in love with Bertrand, and maybe also because Count Olaf had TDP print lies about him.
The part about her playing soccer and him being the cheerleader makes me laugh.
Beatrice plays the theremin!!!
Beatrice had marmosets
What was misread in the napkin?
Why would a pair of white gloves be slipped into a punch bowl?
BB to LS #5
Letter: T
Type of Letter: Typed
Date: Midway through the Days of Awe
Subject: Beatrice desperately wants Snicket to contact her in order to help her find Violet, Klaus, and Sunny
People:
Violet Baudelaire
Klaus Baudelaire
Sunny Baudelaire
Vice Principal (Nero?)
last instructor – a woman who had to head to the hills to search for orphans
Geography:
City
Mountains
Hills
Personal Notes:
The stories the Baudelaires told Beatrice are different from the stories Snicket wrote
LS to BB #6
Letter: A
Type of Letter: Telegram
Date: Late Summer
Subject: Snicket contacts Beatrice to congratulate her on her pregnancy and warn her of something.
People:
Her husband (Bertrand Baudelaire)
Personal Notes:
Snicket contacting Beatrice again perhaps caused the series of unfortunate events that happened to the Baudelaires.
BB to LS #6
Letter: B
Type of Letter: Folded card
Date: Cocktail Hour
Subject: Beatrice is apologizing to Snicket for embarrassing him in front of his friends.
People:
friends
waiter
Personal Notes:
The card is still intact, so he must have met with her.
My Silence Knot
Bertrand lived in solitude, Snicket’s letter to Beatrice about how good her performance is failed to arrive because the bats took the letter to R instead, and that is when she fell in love with Bertrand, because she didn’t know Snicket was going to propose to her.
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takatoguil
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 64
Likes: 40
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Post by takatoguil on May 27, 2019 13:24:53 GMT -5
It's worth noting that Beatrice definitely spent months tracking Lemony down -- Victoria Day is May 20th, and the Days of Awe are a little ambiguous (potentially covering a period of up to 40 days), but the ten Days of Repentance typically fall in September.
People who are especially desperate to date the series will likely conclude that Lemony's second letter was dated 1941, 1953, 1965, or 1977.
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Post by Hermes on May 27, 2019 16:23:08 GMT -5
LS to BB #1 is definitely before ATWQ, since Lemony is 11, when in ATWQ he is just short of 13. More puzzling is #2, where they come across as quite a bit older; and yet in ATWQ he said 'My schooldays are over'.
And yes, Olivia/Lulu! I'm so glad you got that - many people read ait as referring to some disguise of Olaf's, but I'm sure you are right.
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Post by Foxy on May 28, 2019 5:05:24 GMT -5
And yes, Olivia/Lulu! I'm so glad you got that - many people read ait as referring to some disguise of Olaf's, but I'm sure you are right. I don't remember which thread it was, but I definitely learned this information from you in the last year!
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Post by Hermes on May 28, 2019 7:39:32 GMT -5
Ah well. I thought this might be a case of great minds thinking alike, but clearly not...
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 28, 2019 18:23:42 GMT -5
Does Lemony originally think this is Esmé pretending to be the first Beatrice Baudelaire? It seems like it. I guess that means she survived the Hotel Denouement fire, or at least Lemony thought she might have. She appears to know a lot of things the Baudelaires couldn't have - or I guess they could have read about them on the Island. I'm starting to think, though, that she might have paid a visit to Dewey's underwater library at some point. Yes, her introducing herself to Lemony signifies that she can't be the same Beatrice with whom Lemony was in love. I don't know what I would have made of that if I had read it before TE came out. Good catch - I hadn't noticed that! I think it's more like a lot of their communication is them passing each other coded messages about the activities of the 'villainous' side of VFD, which they wouldn't want to fall into the wrong hands. It's also possible their enemies could exploit their love for each other - e.g. by kidnapping one of them and holding them hostage to force the other to give information. Yes, he must have been. Clearly she missed the message. I thought at first the reference to badly trained bats might just have been an inside joke between Beatrice and R, with Beatrice being the one training them, but I guess it's also possible it was Olaf. I hadn't spotted that either! I wonder which villainous person got their hands on this letter. I don't know about that - I thought the telegram was sent before Violet was born, signifying the beginning of the fifteen-year period during which Beatrice and Lemony did not communicate. General Notes
This is the Snicket book I read the most recently - I only bought it in December of last year, since I knew Season Three of the Netflix adaption would include elements of TBL, and I wanted to be able to see how they would adapt it. So, this is actually my first time rereading it. It definitely feels very different from the rest of the series, but I still really enjoyed the book both times. I like the dedication - it works well as a play on the others. LS to BB #1
The drawing before the first letter would probably have very little significance to a first-time reader. That wasn't the case for me, because I already knew a lot about TBL before I read it, but for someone reading at the time of publication, I can't imagine what the initial response would be. We find out from the back of the letter that Lemony is a student of rhetoric. This is interesting, because it is more natural to assume that all the school-aged VFD members would be studying the same things, but maybe each student has a specific talent they focus on the most. One wonders if the school Lemony and Beatrice attend is a boarding school. It seems like there are some elements of ATWQ and ASOUE that support this idea, while others do not. BB to LS #1
The spatulas in the illustration should clue the reader into realising the significance of the wrecked boat, though I suppose if you were reading this before TE came out, you would probably assume that the boat the Baudelaires leave the hotel in would sink earlier on, and kickstart the plot of the book. Beatrice beginning the letter 'Dear Sir' is sort of odd; I wonder if she didn't know Lemony's name, though, if she is familiar with the ASOUE books, I'm not sure how that could be the case. Of course, this also brings to mind Sir from Lucky Smells. It almost seems like Handler is teasing this thought intentionally, but I don't see why he would have. Where is Beatrice living when she is writing this letter? It sounds like she is far away from the city, meaning that she cannot at this point be at the 'secretarial school'. Similarly, how old is she? I don't think she could be younger than seven or eight, but later letters will make it sound as though she has been looking for Lemony for a while. 'hoping for the best, like hoping for a bat to obey your orders, almost always leads to disappointment.' A rather depressing outlook. How long has Beatrice been separated from the Baudelaires? Considering how much she seems to be able to remember about them, and how much she wants to find them, it seems like she must have lost track of them later than the shipwreck, but if they didn't get separated in the shipwreck, how would they have lost her? No matter what, she must have been on her own for a few years at least. LS to BB # 2
I guess this illustration is supposed to be a brae? I really don't know what a first time reader would make of it, except it does seem ominous. How old is Lemony when he writes this? This has been brought up before, but I think it must have been before ATWQ, after which time he is no longer attending school. This doesn't really sync up with what Jerome tells the Baudelaires about hiking with Beatrice, but maybe that was a different expedition? BB to LS #2
The illustration before this chapter also doesn't bring with it much hope for the Baudelaires to have survived the shipwreck. I'm not sure what the significance of the barrel is meant to be, though. Now, we find out that Beatrice has succeeded in finding Lemony's office, but not him. Not sure why he would keep renting it when he obviously wasn't using it. 'It takes years for the land to recuperate from a fire, but even in the darkest of ashes eventually something can grow.' A more positive vision for the future than what we have previously seen in this series, particularly in TPP. Did Lemony intend for Beatrice to be able to track him down based on the clues? As a trained VFD member, he should know better than to have items pertaining to his whereabouts lying around. Maybe he's ambivalent - he wants to speak to Beatrice, but is also afraid. One wonders why he would be. I guess it's possible it's because the Baudelaires are dead, but it could also be that he just doesn't know where they are.
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Post by Foxy on May 28, 2019 19:27:28 GMT -5
How old is Lemony when he writes this? This has been brought up before, but I think it must have been before ATWQ, after which time he is no longer attending school. This doesn't really sync up with what Jerome tells the Baudelaires about hiking with Beatrice, but maybe that was a different expedition? I don't think they would have been able to invite Jerome. It seems this was a school trip, and Jerome wasn't in school with them. This kind of reminds me of TSS when Snicket talks about the litter being gone, which is good because it means animals have returned and taken the litter away. It almost seems like he thought somehow it was the mother, because he doesn't realize there could be two Beatrice Baudelaires. Maybe he thought she was a ghost, and she was afraid of her? That does not seem likely, though.
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Post by Dante on May 29, 2019 8:05:37 GMT -5
Truly, I do not particularly care to worry about where TBL sits chronologically in relation to ATWQ. I am convinced that Handler didn't think it mattered and didn't trouble himself about the details. Beatrice beginning the letter 'Dear Sir' is sort of odd; I wonder if she didn't know Lemony's name, though, if she is familiar with the ASOUE books, I'm not sure how that could be the case. Of course, this also brings to mind Sir from Lucky Smells. It almost seems like Handler is teasing this thought intentionally, but I don't see why he would have. Ah, this reminds me! TPP p. 254 also draws attention to the fact that Sir is wearing pyjamas bearing the initials "LS" - for "Lucky Smells", it suggests, but I can't help but think that this is all part of a long-shot red herring. After all, neither Sir nor Lemony ever show their face... We see Snicket's seeming terror of young Beatrice again later in the book. My view has always been that he has only bad news for her.
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Post by Foxy on May 29, 2019 9:09:24 GMT -5
Ah, this reminds me! TPP p. 254 also draws attention to the fact that Sir is wearing pyjamas bearing the initials "LS" - for "Lucky Smells", it suggests, but I can't help but think that this is all part of a long-shot red herring. After all, neither Sir nor Lemony ever show their face... I had always taken this to mean that somehow he stole Snicket's pajamas.
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Post by Dante on May 29, 2019 16:17:08 GMT -5
I would be more than happy to believe that that is true. Sir is unusually short, it must be said; but I'm sure he could get Charles to modify the fit for him.
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 29, 2019 17:56:54 GMT -5
I don't think they would have been able to invite Jerome. It seems this was a school trip, and Jerome wasn't in school with them. That begs the question, when would Jerome have been able to hike with all these VFD members? I guess it's possible they sometimes invited non-members on their expedition, but it's hard to see why they would have. Yeah, I was thinking of that passage, too. Ah, this reminds me! TPP p. 254 also draws attention to the fact that Sir is wearing pyjamas bearing the initials "LS" - for "Lucky Smells", it suggests, but I can't help but think that this is all part of a long-shot red herring. After all, neither Sir nor Lemony ever show their face... Right, it does seem like a deliberate red herring, but it's an odd one. I don't think anyone could seriously suggest that Sir and Lemony are one and the same, but if Handler is just attempting to mislead readers, it doesn't go anywhere. I had always taken this to mean that somehow he stole Snicket's pajamas. That's as good an in-universe explanation as any. LS to BB #3The image of the bats now makes more sense, though we haven't actually had the definition of 'baticeer' yet. How old is Lemony when writing this? It must be after ATWQ, but before he proposed to Beatrice. I'd imagine he'd be around eighteen or nineteen. Lemony's just volunteering at the newspaper? I guess I'd always thought it was a paid job, but maybe not. Or maybe what he actually means is 'working for a paid job at TDP, as a member of the Volunteer Fire Department', though it's an odd way of phrasing it. So, Ike gave Lemony a graduation gift. How old is he, then? I don't think he could be more than, say, ten years older than Lemony, but that means he could be just about old enough to be advising or mentoring him in some capatcity, such that his giving Lemony a gift would make sense. Also, what was Lemony graduating from? Is it possible that he got given the gift before he became an apprentice, and he's just had it for a few years by this point? Seems like Beatrice is giving coded info to Lemony both in her plays and sonnets. BB to LS #3The image before this letter is perhaps more hopeful than the previous shipwreck-related ones, though it doesn't tell us much. After having read TE, it's sad to see the ring being given away like this, though of course if you were reading the books in publication order, you wouldn't know its significance. I'd hope Beatrice would eventually be able to get it back. The hideous wallpaper in the cave reminds me of the Orphans' Shack. The mention of Sunny's radio show seems to point to her having survived the shipwreck. It could mean that Beatrice didn't lose track of the Baudelaires until some time later, but she could also have heard Sunny on the radio after they were separated.
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Post by Foxy on May 30, 2019 8:14:33 GMT -5
Seems like Beatrice is giving coded info to Lemony both in her plays and sonnets. I agree, but I don't think he is understanding the codes. I had no idea TBL came out before TE until quite recently. I wonder what people who read it before TE thought was going on. Yes! Never thought of that before. I also wonder, though, if the Baudelaires went back out on The Beatrice after they were separated from Beatrice II, and that is when the ship sank.
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