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Post by Sometimes A on Feb 3, 2004 21:55:24 GMT -5
I don't think Bruce was (or is) in VFD. He just doesn't seem...er...smart enough? I think he's involved though.  He didn't call the orphans cakesniffers; Carmelita did. And Bruce is Carmelita's uncle as well as the guy who packed up the reptiles (TSS, p. 77 - "That's because Uncle Bruce is really your uncle." [said to Carmelita]). |
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Post by Celinra on Feb 5, 2004 9:15:56 GMT -5
First of all, Efogoto, I was saying the literal translation of it. I was doing this because someone in an earlier post (who I will not name) said it meant hands-off, and made it sound as if that is what it literally translated to.
Next, to E, I wasn't directing my post at you... the definition that you said was closer to the actual meaning than the "hands off," which someone else said it meant, in which post they also implied the previous definition given (yours) was wrong.
It's not so much what they said that is bothering me, it's the way they said it... a definition had been given already, so they didn't need to post another, and definately not one that was worded so that it made previous definitions sound wrong.
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Post by Efogoto on Feb 5, 2004 15:25:11 GMT -5
Sorry Celinra, I had a bad reaction to "Learn French before you claim to know what it means." Not everyone will learn French, but we all want to know what Daniel is saying. If, as you say, "teachers teach that it means this phrase" then it was reasonable that someone would repeat that on this site. Anyway, sorry I was so brusk in my response.
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Post by Celinra on Feb 5, 2004 20:56:24 GMT -5
I apologize, also, as I suppose I was rather harsh in my post without realizing it. You're right, I probably was overreacting... I would just prefer it if people would check before they state "facts," or phrase it as "I heard/learned it as..." rather than "It's actually..."
I now swear to say nothing more on this subject, as I've probably made enough of an idiot/jerk of myself enough with this.
Now, on topic... there's a phrase that's something like, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." An example where I think they would use this is in protecting the environment: If you're doing nothing at all, either way, you're not helping the environment get better. Perhaps DH is trying to show this through the Laissez-faire characters.
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Post by Efogoto on Feb 5, 2004 21:13:04 GMT -5
Perhaps DH is trying to show this through the Laissez-faire characters. Exactly. |
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Post by E on Feb 6, 2004 19:28:46 GMT -5
I'm glad you aren't mad... I'm one of those people who tends to take it personally if I'm singled out and thinks the comments are directed at me only O_0 . So thanks very much- I'll remember that. And I'll be sure to be a little more thorough when I do my research for such things.
Anywho, I think Celinra has a very good point. Do you remember if DH ever implied a simmilar phrase anywhere else (besides just through characters, I mean)?
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Post by E on Feb 6, 2004 19:54:46 GMT -5
Isadora_Q? I'm pretty sure I'm not- at least last time I checked.
Jeremy whom?
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Post by Rikku on Feb 6, 2004 21:40:56 GMT -5
Oh okay, Isadora_Q is this paranoid chick who is always afraid everyone is upset at her (which is always the opposite). That's why I asked. aw I miss her. yeah, she deleated her account again. oh well. sorry. kinda off topic |
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Post by Celinra on Feb 7, 2004 0:25:44 GMT -5
In regards to Swans' post, perhaps the schism occured because they couldn't agree on what was actually the greater good. Just a thought.
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Post by SnicketFires on Feb 7, 2004 18:17:50 GMT -5
In regards to Swans' post, perhaps the schism occured because they couldn't agree on what was actually the greater good. Just a thought. That's an interesting thought. Just like in TSS where it explains about the well read people and the ones who think fire is for the greater good. Also in the SS when Olaf and Esmé are fighting over the fortune and the sugar bowl. |
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Post by E on Feb 7, 2004 21:41:53 GMT -5
Oh okay, Isadora_Q is this paranoid chick who is always afraid everyone is upset at her (which is always the opposite). That's why I asked. [/i][/quote] Oh, yeah. Her. Nope, I'm not Isadora_Q. On the "Greater Good" thing, well spotted! That's odd. Could the phrase also be equated with Olivia's always "giving people what they want"? Another thing, Jeremy Bentham's inmate surveilance invention... doesn't that seem sort of familiar? The VFD possible-neophytes are always being watched. Violet mentions in TCC something about it being unsettling that they could be watched every minute when she discovers a photo of them standing on Damocles Dock. This could just be coincidence, however. |
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Post by E on Feb 8, 2004 10:58:33 GMT -5
That is weird. It might be a coincidence, but it's an awfully large coincidence.
George Orwell would make a lot of sense. Especially (and I know this has been mentioned before) after that whole Georgina Orwell bit.
It's all there- the eyes in her office, the brainwashing, and obviously the name.
I think he was referring to Orwell's 1984 earlier in the series when he talked about the eyes, before emphasis on the VFD really took off. After that the "eye" became the VFD insignia. But LS still does mention the metaphor of it "watching" the Baudelaires once in awhile, doesn't he?
Oh, and something else about 1984 just came to me. A lot of the plot circles around Winston writing in that book, didn't it? There was a constant war going on- reminded me a little of the schism, or the "fight fire with fire and the world goes up in smoke" phrase. The government in the book also completely goes against laisses-faire philosophy. And of course there's the mob mentality thing. Remember in the mornings everyone was forced to tune into the telescreens and listen to the announcers badmouthing the enemy, and pretty soon everyone would get worked up and be yelling and screaming and jumping up and down? Boom- mob mentality.
As long as we're on the topic of literary allusions, has anyone ever read Farenheit 451?
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Post by SnicketFires on Feb 8, 2004 13:22:26 GMT -5
Every so often, when Lemony reminisces (sp?) about the eyes the Baudelaires have seen in the past, he refers to them "watching" the Baudelaires.
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Post by Celinra on Feb 8, 2004 20:22:30 GMT -5
That's a good point about 1984, I never really noticed it before, save for the name obviously taken from it.
I've read F. 451. Same vein as 1984, in that it's about a shielded brainwashed society.
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Post by E on Feb 8, 2004 21:00:14 GMT -5
Yes. Plus, it's got a volunteer fire department in it.
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He didn't call the orphans cakesniffers; Carmelita did. And Bruce is Carmelita's uncle as well as the guy who packed up the reptiles (TSS, p. 77 - "That's because Uncle Bruce is really your uncle." [said to Carmelita]).
