Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Oct 22, 2004 20:55:50 GMT -5
Robert Frost has been referenced in ASOUE. I forgot which book, but Handler references his most well-known poem, The Road Less Traveled. Anyway, Frost also wrote a poem called Fire and Ice, which breathed ASOUE and I promptly memorized in 3 readings of it. It goes: Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
I am not a skilled analyst by any means. But it's hard to miss thea connection between fire and desire. Olaf's desire for money leads himt to set fire to things. As for ice...IIf fire=Olaf, ice=the good VFD. The good VFD is something rarely associated with hate. But as shown in TGG both sides are imperfect, asnd even the g ood VFD can not remain moral all the time, They definitely hate hate...or fire, rather. I thought of the Mortmain Mountains, and the Baudelaires kidnapping Esme. But they weren't primarily motivated by hate. And it didn't have much to do with ice. So...any more intelligent people want to help analyze this poem and fit it into ASOUE?
Interesting fact: Robert Frost was from San Francisco. So was Daniel Handler.
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Post by Sapphire on Oct 22, 2004 21:09:48 GMT -5
It does connect to ASOUE. For all the reasons you said. The poem talks about the world ending in fire, and in ASOUE they've talked about fighting fire with fire and the whole world would go up in smoke and stuff. I'm not good at explaining this. But you are correct, it's very ASOUEish.
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Post by artluvr on Oct 22, 2004 22:44:10 GMT -5
I love Frost to pieces, but I think Yeats' The Second Coming (at least the first verse of it) would kick some serious behind if it were used or referenced in any way in the series. Or maybe even Kubla Khan. "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome decree, where Alph the sacred river ran through caverns measureless to man down to a sunless sea." If Grim Grotto hadn't already come out I would have suspected that there might be a reference to it somewhere.
I'll analyze Fire and Ice tomorrow maybe. It's too late for analysis.
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Post by SpookyMeggie on Oct 23, 2004 18:56:08 GMT -5
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.
I guess what the poem is looking at is the two extremes of emotion -- consuming passion, which can be destructive whether it is hate or love, and iciness, a complete lack of compassion and emotion. I think the poem is pointing out that anything, when allowed to reach an extreme, is ultimately destructive.
We've seen both in the books, most visually, fire. Fire is passion, passion is beyond control etc etc etc. But ice isnt innocent, either --and nor is the VFD. Both rivalling forces/symbols result in disaster when they go unchecked. In an icey setting, the Baudelaires act in an un-noble manner: setting traps, lying and deceiving --exactly what Count Olaf and his troupe do regularily. Ice has the same end result as fire. But unlike the villains, the children realize the damage that may come of their icey disposition, and reign themselves in before it is too late.
The point is, no mtter how oposite two things might be, when they are out of control the end result is equally disasterous.
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Oct 23, 2004 19:08:29 GMT -5
It also shows that fire--Olaf--isn't the only thing evil/capable of causing destruction... C: Oh, way to go after Maggie's awesome analysis of the poem. -_-
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Post by Ace is Back! on Oct 26, 2004 16:07:54 GMT -5
but Handler references his most well-known poem, The Road Less Traveled. It's The Road Not Taken, not The Road Less Traveled. But interesting connection.
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Post by Dante on Oct 27, 2004 6:00:43 GMT -5
It's The Road Not Taken, not The Road Less Traveled. Handler referred to it as "The Road Less Traveled" in TSS (first page), so I suppose he must have been mistaken. The second-to-last line does say "less traveled", though, so I suppose that we can see how Handler made the mistake (unless it had a different title in certain places, or something).
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Post by Hooky on Oct 27, 2004 18:20:52 GMT -5
So basically, The Road Less Traveled is from another poet. ;D
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Post by Ace is Back! on Oct 28, 2004 16:16:56 GMT -5
Handler referred to it as "The Road Less Traveled" in TSS (first page)... I'm aware of that, I was just stating a fact. I'm sorry.
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Post by SpookyMeggie on Oct 28, 2004 22:10:14 GMT -5
*blush* thanks, Pandora.
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