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Post by thistledown on Jun 22, 2006 17:51:12 GMT -5
I was not sure where to put this. I didn't put it in the 1-3 discussion because it contains things from other books. Anyway, here is a little theory I have as to how exactly the mansion was burnt. Some of this you already know, because I have seen references to this in some other posts. However, I have a few original ideas here:
First off, the Baudelaire parents sent their kids on the trolley ride to the beach because the parents, Beatrice? and Bertrand had a meeting with Count Olaf. Beatrice did not, of course, trust Olaf, because of her relationship with Lemony. However, Bertrand arranged the meeting because he wanted to make some kind of peace deal with Olaf. (As a side note, Charles Baudelaire, the real guy, was friends with a person named Olaf. So this could mean that Bertrand was, at some time, buddies with the Count.)
Olaf arrived and the Baudelaires were unsure about how to begin the meeting. They poured him a glass of brandy and gave him a coaster, he ignored the latter and drank the brandy while the Baudelaires made small talk about the weather. This conversation angered the Count and he pounded the wet glass on their cherry table, leaving an unsightly ring.
The Baudelaires were surprised at his outburst and they tried to fix the matter. However, Olaf simply laughed, saying that he had never intended to make any kind of treaty. He said that he had come for the sugar bowl which Beatrice had stolen from Esme many years previously.
The Baudelaires denied having such a thing when they heard a crash in the library. The parents rushed in to find the trapdoor open and Esme Squalor (who had just wed Jerome) standing in the room, holding a torch. She kept them at torch-point while Olaf searched the house. But he found nothing and bolted all of the exits. He made his way to the library and jumped down the trap door. Esme dropped the torch and followed Olaf, locking the door behind them. Assuming the library was in the middle of the house, the fire spread in a circle and destroyed the house.
It is possible a parent, of course, survived. However, I have no clue how this could happen...anyways...comments?
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Jun 22, 2006 19:35:34 GMT -5
That's pretty much consistent with what we know from the BBRE notes. However, I'm not quite certain about the trapdoor being in the library(it's not unlikely, but not stated anyplace); all we know is that it's in the middle of the house because of the ashes surrounding it from some distance.
Also, I'm not sure about Esme being present at the scene of the crime, especially if she'd have had to own the passageway(because of marrying Jerome) in order to be there. In TEE, it says that she and Jerome moved into the penthouse only "a few weeks ago"(pg 46), and it's generally suspected that the previous books took longer than that. I also think the parents would take better care to keep their trapdoor locked, so it couldn't be opened from underneath. And if, as seems more likely, there was no one obstructing this passageway, a survivor could have hidden in it.
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Post by thistledown on Jun 22, 2006 20:31:04 GMT -5
You do, in fact, have a point. But the marrying thing might work out...here is a little approximation of events: Olaf House: 2 to 3 weeks Monty: 1 week Aunt: 1 week Sir: 1 week Academy: 1 month or less This is probably off a lot, but it might, just might work out.
But you are right, that still does not take care of the trapdoor issue.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Jun 22, 2006 21:38:54 GMT -5
Here's a timeline thread that might prove helpful: asoue.proboards11.com/index.cgi?board=jog&action=display&thread=1146331027I'd estimate that the timespan of the first five books is somewhat longer than that, because the TMM editor letter describes the Baudelaires spending a "half semester" at Prufrock, which is about two months. Keeping that in mind, I'd guess Esme and Jerome married during the time the Baudelaires were at Prufrock.
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Post by thistledown on Jun 22, 2006 21:49:28 GMT -5
I am thanking you a lot today, huh? lol I'll go check that out now.
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Post by RockSunner on Jun 22, 2006 21:54:11 GMT -5
After your "unsightly ring" I was hoping for Sebald code, but I don't find any, alas.
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Post by thistledown on Jun 22, 2006 21:56:48 GMT -5
hahahaa...whoa, I didn't realize that. Sebald is every 11 words, right (i can't believe I forgot)?
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Post by Dante on Jun 23, 2006 10:12:26 GMT -5
First word after the ring (ring), then a gap of ten words between each coded word after that.
I think that what we know about the destruction of the home is too vague for us to make a detailed outline, but we can certainly make guesses. For example, it's been suggested that Count Olaf was angered by recent rain which foiled another of his arson plots.
Also, the phrasing of the note about the Baudelaires being permitted to go to Briny Beach - On that particular occasion, the Baudelaire parents not only gave their children permission but encouraged them to leave the house, as the adults had some pressing business to attend to. This business was delayed indefinitely due to death - suggests possibly that the business in question was something not involving Olaf at all, and his murder of the parents would obviously delay whatever other plans the parents might have had forever. It's vague, though; for example, the business could have been capturing Olaf, but again they can't capture him if they're dead. And since we've only heard indirect references to the fire that really omit names, then we can't really make any safe conclusions about the fire, not even about Olaf's presence (despite that being overwhelmingly probable).
Also of note is that the revelation in TPP that the Baudelaire parents murdered Olaf's parents - or that he, among others, apparently belives they did - would indicate that revenge might be more of a motivating factor for Olaf rather than retrieving the sugar bowl. The BBRE notes don't even mention the sugar bowl at all, that I can remember.
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Post by thistledown on Jun 23, 2006 12:34:38 GMT -5
True, true...but the note make a small reference to what could be the sugar bowl. He said that an earlier version of TBB said something like Mr. Poe removed his top-hat carefully because of the fact that top-hats were great places to hide something.
Edit: Oh yeah, could Poe possibly have been at the fire? To get whatever he had in his hat? Don't you think it is a little fishy that a banker came to get them instead of the police? (that last part is irrelevant, btw)
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Post by Dante on Jun 23, 2006 13:13:24 GMT -5
Frankly, seems like a lot of the plotlines hinted at in the BBRE have been discarded; it was once suggested that the line in question wasn't in the second draft because Poe didn't really have anything under his hat. So you see, the line's ambiguous enough for it to be wriggled out of. I'm not sure if I ever came to a perfect conclusion on what Poe had under his top hat, but I assume it had something to do with the "You-Know-Who" he mentioned in a letter to his sister that was in the U.A. J.S., perhaps? We may never know. But it seems to me that Poe's just clueless, completely, and if he's up to anything then it's because he's being manipulated by people far cleverer than him. At any rate, I don't think he was at the Baudelaire mansion during the fire. You never know, though. I try to be equivocal because Snicket might just decide to pull massive twists in everything in the last book.
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Post by thistledown on Jun 28, 2006 23:25:07 GMT -5
Yeah...ur probably righto on this 'un! Aanywayz...but (like you said could happen) snicket does need a huge twist to end the series...think about it: he is at a standstill--VFD exists--there is no way evil is going to be purged from the world...so, being a bit of a writer myself, I see that, since snicket needs a bombshell ending, he will do some odd twist to end it all...and this last comment does not go for the Poe thing--but anything!
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r
Reptile Researcher
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Post by r on Jul 22, 2007 20:19:28 GMT -5
lemmony burnt down the mansion i think
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Post by jster on May 23, 2008 1:33:26 GMT -5
well thats interesting. thanks for pointing that out.
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Post by Kount Kelsey on Aug 14, 2008 8:35:07 GMT -5
WELL I ALSO HAVE A THEORY ON HOW THE HOUSE BURNT DOWN ... i one of the book olaf told the baudelaire's that there parents told him that he was going to fail and in book six that path in the elavator shaft lead to there house so olaf had bean planning this for years and he had made it seem like it was under construction ( wich it was by him) and one day 9 the day the kids were at the beach. he went down that path and se the house on fire!!!!!
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Post by Eye on Aug 26, 2008 18:45:56 GMT -5
WELL I ALSO HAVE A THEORY ON HOW THE HOUSE BURNT DOWN ... i one of the book olaf told the baudelaire's that there parents told him that he was going to fail and in book six that path in the elavator shaft lead to there house so olaf had bean planning this for years and he had made it seem like it was under construction ( wich it was by him) and one day 9 the day the kids were at the beach. he went down that path and se the house on fire!!!!! If they knew he'd burn their house down, they would've been more cautious, right? They could've meant gaint the Baudelaire fortune, find the sugar bowl, etc....Sorry, but I highly doubt that.
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