Post by Kobolos on Nov 26, 2003 8:45:44 GMT -5
swans said:
Oh, I'm sorry.. I thought by friend you meant someone you had regular contact with. Well when he gives you a call.. I'd appreciate it if you could somehow work that verse into the conversation. (:Dude, seriously.. I'm not saying there has to be a checklist and if you don't fit it then your belief isn't "real" or whatever.
Look at what happened around 9/11.. those hijackers and such claimed they did it in the name of Islam, that they were guided by their God. There was an immediate message from Muslims and readers of the Koran saying "NO, that is not Islam and you can not find those things in the Koran". The Muslim world did not want to be represented by someone who molded, changed and rearranged their belief system yet still did it in the name of a well established religion.
In other words don't misrepresent.
I said nothing about if you don't believe what I believe then your beliefs are null and void... though I certainly do believe that, and it isn't so much that I'm "better" than everyone but I believe there is only one God, and He alone I bow down to. I don't think I rub that in people's face but I'm not going to pretend to believe otherwise just for the sake of someone's sensitivity..or because people view that as "wrong". No one has the right to tell anyone what to believe-- fine, then don't tell me what to believe. Don't dare tell me what is wrong if we live in a world of there are no "right" or "wrong" beliefs.
Like I said.. I understand people getting all pissy with me because I believe in Jesus and He is my Savior, and people don't like that I think my way is the only way. Well, fine, don't freakin' like that I do that and if you don't believe what I do then I really don't see the problem.
Just do not come to me.. tell me that I can't tell people what to believe or tell people what they believe is wrong, and then turn around do the same to me.
You are taking away my beliefs by doing that, and it's not so much that I mind that you do that.. but it bothers me when people consistently say no belief system is wrong and anyone can believe whatever they want, and then those people turn around say "except for you, you are excluded".
In other words.. anyone can believe what they like as long as it has our stamp approval.
WHAT THE FUDGE EVER.
Okay, I'm not upset at you or anything Goblin. Like I said this really just grates me.. I understand how people can see Christianity as close-minded or prejudice or whatever because it excludes and says my way or the highway.
I so understand that.. but we can't handpick the right and wrong beliefs. Just like this country shouldn't be judgemental against Paganism and such since we should all be able to believe what we like.. you can't come up with universal right and wrongs that take away my belief even if my belief takes away from yours.
Muslims weren't the only ones blamed for 9/11 as I remember....
You know, you're absoluely right, I'm being hypocritical, and I tried so hard not to be, but here I am.
But it's the nature of Christianity that frustrates me. .
Christians are taught to convert. Convert everyone you can. Spread the Good News, Put on your spiritual armor, all that jazz. If you look at the history of the world...the history of religions...Ideals in Paganism dates back to paleolithic times, to worship the god of the hunt and the goddess of fertility. One can see the remnants of it in cave paintings and in the figurines of Goddesses that are MANY thousand of years old. This early religion was universal. The names changed from place to place but the basic dieties were the same.
When Christianity came to Europe, it's inlands were slow. Kings and nobles were converted first, but many continued to worship in both religions. Dwellers in rural areas, the Pagans and heathens if you will kept to the old ways. Churches were built on the sacred sites of the Old Religion. The names of the festivals were changed but the dates were kept.
All in an effort to convert, and how I hate this term "the godless heathens" how it must be that they don't worship your god, therefore they are godless.
The old rites continued in folk festivals, and for many centuries Christian policy was one of slow cooptation.
During the times of persecution he church took the god of the Old Religion, and as is the habit with conquerors, turned him into the Christian devil.
(as I have never found the popular "horned devil" description in the Bible itself, it all came about in the Middle-ages)
The Old Religion was forced underground, and the rest as you say, is history.
Why is it that peaceful religions like Wicca, Hinduism, and the like are more than happy to g et along, that they are religions without converts, yet such fire boils when it comes to Christianity?
Because by it's very nature, Christianity...or should I say the Church, is a machine. You are right Swans, we should all be able to believe what we want, but unfortunately Christianity by it's very design will never allow that. And everytime we see a judge in Alabama refuse to remove a ten commandments monument it only drives the point home. I'm all for prayer in school....Monday it's Thor, Tuesday it's Jesus, Wednesday it's Vishnu, Thursday it's Mary, Friday it's the Lord and Lady...just make sure no one is excluded.
The reason I say believe what you want except Christianity is a knee jerk reaction, since Christianity and most importantly it's believers do not afford me the curtesy that other religions do...namely, to thrive and be at peace...they only want to eradicate what I believe, be it through law, government, or plain old prejudice.
Christianity I have found gets what it gives in way of tolerance from most non-Christians.