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Post by Charles Vane on Dec 30, 2003 22:41:48 GMT -5
I just don't like that people think it's a bad thing for children or anyone to know about wicca. I mean maybe if more people got the basic idea then they wouldn't be so afraid and think it was bad. People are just afraid of what they don't understand.
Thanks for the suggestions Kobolos. Silver Ravenwolf has been recommened to me before, I've looked at her books on the internet but I haven't had the opportunity to buy them.
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Post by Amphagorey on Dec 30, 2003 23:12:28 GMT -5
If I had children I would let them read the HP series but I wouldn't buy them wicca kits. I read an article several years ago, it was actually from a southern baptists paper.. surprise surprise, and the article points out if we are going to ban HP we need to ban AiW as well. The pastor asked adults to remember their favorite childhood books, and asked if those books corrupted them.. To me God gave us an imagination and we shouldn't be so deluded as to think HP is real but I think it's fine to read fantasy and indulge in that a bit. But I'm not going to spend money on some wicca spell kit.. especially when it seems like, as Goblin has expressed many times, that wicca isn't about love spells and such. To me the whole wicca craze (merchandise, not religious wise) is just trying to make money off of children.. not trying to promote the true meaning but appeal to, yes-- the let's be happy now notion. To me some young girl buying the kit in order to get her crush to ask her out isn't really setting a true example of Wicca. Though I think I might be open-minded enough if my children were at a proper age and wanted to explore other religions I would allow that to happen. But I would be very cautious because I do think there are things that will suck in an innocent mind.. and it would be my responsibility not only as a Christian but as a mother to not allow my child to harm themselves. Nicly put swans. Ever so wise of you to state. ;D
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Post by Kobolos on Dec 31, 2003 9:04:14 GMT -5
Swans, that was really well said.
You don't need the Teen witch kit to practice Wicca anymore than you need to go to a church to practice Christianity. But people get wrapped up in the wrapping paper and forget all about the gift itself sometimes. You can find deity in a rock beside a stream just as much as you can find it anywhere. I'm not going to say Wicca is right for everyone. That's the great thing about life. Do your research, follow your heart as it was said. Explore all the avenues. As for Wicca, here is the best steps I can give:
The Truth About Witchcraft By Scott Cunningham It's only 56 pages, but it answers alot of questions beginners have as well as people who just want to know about Wicca.
Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner By Scott Cunningham Not only does it explain the practical basics (tools, Sabbats, circle casting), he also explores the deeper spirituality that many witchcraft books lack.
Spiral Dance By Starhawk. The tone is clearly feminist and Goddess worship is the central theme, but there is still a solid foundation of basic Wiccan principles. the latest anniversary edition basically has a timeline of the progress of Paganism since the books initial printing back in the seventies.
To Ride a Silver Broomstick By Silver Ravenwolf. This book was written with a younger audience in mind, and covers Wicca in a light and somewhat superficial manner. This is the SIlver book you will most likely be recommended to, and she is also the author of the Teen Witch Kit: Everything you need to make Magick, Teen Witch: Wicca for a new generation, Witches' Chillers (think R.L. Stein), ect. ect. She is unfortunately guilty of most of the stuff they are blaming Harry Potter for. She's making money off of teenagers sense of discovery.
Hew is what is in the WItch Kit and then I'll post a review that I particularly liked from Amazon
Editorial Reviews Amazon.com Author and clan leader Silver RavenWolf has four teenagers of her own, so she knows a lot about teenage angst. She also knows you can't "just pick up a remote control and switch to another channel if things aren't going too well." What you can do, however, is turn to witchcraft.
Teen witches can expect to find a code of honor as well as tips on creating a magick circle, daily altar, and holy water. The final half of the book is dedicated to teenage spells, including a spell "to find direction in life and stop drifting," "for shopping guidance," "to cope with peer pressure," and "to be a gracious leader." The kit and easy-to-assemble altar includes numerous charms, such as a "silver moon pendant" (for protection), prosperity coin, quartz crystal, and gold wish cord. --Tara West
the Review: "$ilver Ravenwolf can not stop, and that is bad for those who are interested in Wicca. As I wrote in my review of Silver Broomstick, she writes not to entertain or inform, but for the $ilver she is named after.
She already sanitizes Wicca to remove anything that might offend anybody with the slightest sentisitivities. That leaves fluff and light without substance, sugary, and much cuteness without anything beyond it, like a Fluffy Bunny.
Then she abandons even the ethics her "blockbuster" trilogy managed to keep, when she wrote Teen Witch, which is nothing more than a spell book. No theology or ethics, even the sugary and watered down version she gave before. There really is nothing in the book.
Now, get it while it's hot, get it here, an actual kit that will make you a witch. Extra Extra, you want fries with that witch kit? We got your pentagrams right here! No work, you're an instant Witch just because you bought this box.
No, it doesn't work that way"
No, it doesn't.
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Post by Amphagorey on Dec 31, 2003 14:05:12 GMT -5
I have one of her books, and I thought it was great. It was a little sugary, and now that I've seen it in that light, it makes things very clear.
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Post by Fife on Dec 31, 2003 14:16:45 GMT -5
well here's my two cents.
i'm a christian though my relationship has been...... how shall i put it? rocky? not because i thought it was stupid or anything, i just wanted to do things my way...... which was a stupid thing to do cause it didn't do me much good. anywho, i don't believe all religions are right, they just can't be. they all say different stuff. and while i respect them, i can't accept them (if that makes sense ;D)
and as for hp, i like to read those books, but i'm still up in the air as to whether they're good or bad.
and as for doing what you FEEL is right...... many things feel right, but that doesn't make them right or good for you.
this has been fife's two cents. thank you, good nite
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Post by Keya on Feb 16, 2004 21:14:36 GMT -5
I am a Chistian and I don't approve of HP but I do approve of LotR, NArnia, and The Veritas Project, all of which are by Christian authors. Even though they have witchcraft in them, the difference is they're not focused on witchcraft they're focused on the teaching, how people are supposed to act to the books. The Veritas Project only has witchcraft in the first book and it all turns out to be a fraud, innocent teenagers believing an Ouiji boad (yes I know i can't spell.). So any way for you all who aren't Christians I recommend who check you're morals and listen to heart, not to what you want.
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Post by ponygirl's vapor on Feb 16, 2004 21:55:52 GMT -5
there's nothing wrong with harry potter. by reading the harry potter books you're not doing anything wrong; if you're moronic enough to believe that by saying a certain word while holding a wand, that all of the sudden something magical will happen- then you need to get a psychiatrist or your parents need to have a nice long talk with you.
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Post by Mrs. (Alphonse) Elric on Feb 16, 2004 22:05:26 GMT -5
You have a point there. But I do agree with Harry Potter. I DON'T agree with things like that are focused on dark magic though. I guess it seems to me that witches that chant nonscence words around a fire and call apon Satan and the spirits of darkness and stuff like that. Now ,that I think about it, Harry Potter does sound alittle iffy, but I've already read it. But I don't think it's ok to have a HP book burning or anything like that.
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Post by Celinra on Feb 17, 2004 10:47:08 GMT -5
First of all, I will state that I am a Christian. I dislike putting denomination titles on it. I go to a Wesleyan church, but I don't believe everything they believe (for example, they don't think people should go to dances). In short, I am simply a Bible-believing Christian. Denominations are from man, the Bible is from God.
As for Christians being intolerant... I suppose it's true. There is a difference, though, between witnessing to others about your belief and urging them to, if nothing else, find out more about it, and burning their house down because they don't believe what you believe. It's a part of a Christian's job to witness. Not to be saved or anything, though, but because you want to spread what you have. It's like if you found a dessert you really like... if you somehow attained an infinite amount of it, would you keep it for yourself or get your friends who had never tried it and share it with them? I can't believe each person's religion is right for them... to me, it's like saying that if someone wants it to, 2+2 can equal 5, because it's right for them.
On a similar note, I'm not going to hate a person just because they don't believe what I think is right. I have two best friends. One is Wiccan (though she reads mostly the books by Silver Ravenwolff and has that kit, so perhaps I will recommend to her some better literature so that she can better understand what she is practising), and the other isn't quite sure what she believes. That doesn't make our friendships any less full. We agree to disagree, sometimes have discussions just to see what the other person thinks, etc.
As for Romans 2:14-16, it seems to me to say something along the lines of 'you're accountable for what you know.' If a gentile sincerely never heard the gospel, they can't be expected to believe in it. If they do the best they can with the knowledge they have, that's all that can be expected from them.
As for Harry Potter, I don't see the harm in it. As was said, it hardly represents what Wicca really is. They're good stories, and are interesting, and make you think. I think with younger children who are more impressionable, it'd be good to explain stuff to them at some point, but not deny them reading it.
As for the idea of a loving God sending people to a fiery Hell: A. He gives people chances to avoid it and redeem themselves from it. B. I read that fire in the Bible represent judgement in most places it's used, ergo, it most likely means judgement here, not a permanent burning of people. C. God is love, but He is also just. If you got in trouble with the law, and a parent or reletive or someone who loved you was the judge, they couldn't just let you off the hook, no matter how much they wanted to. You're subject to the law. Likewise, God doesn't want to send people to Hell, but he has to. D. Imagine if there was someone you didn't like. They're smarter, faster, and in all possible ways simply better than you. Imagine being locked in a house with this person for a year. No matter how nice the house, you'd probably be miserable because you were still stuck with this person. Likewise, why would you want to be up in Heaven for eternity with someone who in life you rejected?
A final note, regarding the people from Adam through Jesus: "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people." - Matthew 27:50-53 (NIV) From what I make of this, those who did what they could to be temporarily saved before Jesus came (i.e. kept commandments, sacrificed when they were supposed to) were now given the chance to be permanently saved by Him.
I think that's about all I have to say at this point. If I've offended anyone... I'm sorry, but this is what I believe, and I won't change it to please you, just as I'm sure you won't change your belief to please me.
I also apologize for that being so long, but I had 12 pages of stuff to catch up on.
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Post by Mrs. (Alphonse) Elric on Feb 17, 2004 20:51:37 GMT -5
Wow. That rocked. That's pretty much what I believe. I loved the 'Denominations come from man, but the Bible comes from God' part.
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Belly Of The Beast
Reptile Researcher
You've already seen the teeth of the beast...the claws of the beast...and the hair of the beast...
Posts: 46
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Post by Belly Of The Beast on Feb 19, 2004 15:24:38 GMT -5
I am a Muslim, pretty religious, I pray and fast, wear a scarf, all that stuff.
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Post by timartwonis on Feb 23, 2004 22:23:50 GMT -5
i dont have a religion. my dad is christian but my mo never got one b/c by the time her mom was born, her family thought she was too young. otherwise, id probably be buddhist.
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Post by embah on Feb 24, 2004 4:26:24 GMT -5
I'm Anglican (i think), but I don't really follow any religion. I don't really believe in it or care for it much. I admit, if I'm really getting into one of my sprinting or cross-country races, I might say something to myself like: "oh please god, help me win, please", but I only say something like that when I'm desperate to come a place. But really, I believe more in reality and less in faith.
The way I see it is, if somethings going to happen, you've got to make ot happen, you can't leave it up to "fate" or whatever you'd like to call it, and I feel proud because everything I've achieved I've achieved by myself, not with the help of so called "god". No offence meant to those of you who are believers, but that's my oppinion.
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Post by ducky112 on Feb 27, 2004 20:40:15 GMT -5
I am a born again christian(gasp)I believe the Bible word for word, and am what you might call "evangelical,"which is basically saying that i feel the need to tell other people about Jesus. This is based off the scripture"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."I mostly agree with the post by Celinra, but i have to disagree in one area. you said we are only accountable for what we know. Just because you've never heard the gospel doesnt guarantee that you go to heaven, I do believe tht children that die go to heaven. But, on the other hand, we were all created with a conscience. Even if we have never read the Bible or been witnessed to, youre conscience alerts you when you are doing something wrong. If you chose to ignore that warnng, which is ordained by God, you are sinning! Sorry. For people that are questoining their faith, are agnostic, or whatever, i really encourage you to take a look, try out Christianity. You never know if you like a food until youve tasted t, and its the same way with christianity. You wont know the truth or even if God exists until you have experienced it!
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Post by BSam on Feb 27, 2004 22:07:23 GMT -5
I am a born again christian(gasp)I believe the Bible word for word, and am what you might call "evangelical,"which is basically saying that i feel the need to tell other people about Jesus. This is based off the scripture"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."I mostly agree with the post by Celinra, but i have to disagree in one area. you said we are only accountable for what we know. Just because you've never heard the gospel doesnt guarantee that you go to heaven, I do believe tht children that die go to heaven. But, on the other hand, we were all created with a conscience. Even if we have never read the Bible or been witnessed to, youre conscience alerts you when you are doing something wrong. If you chose to ignore that warnng, which is ordained by God, you are sinning! Sorry. For people that are questoining their faith, are agnostic, or whatever, i really encourage you to take a look, try out Christianity. You never know if you like a food until youve tasted t, and its the same way with christianity. You wont know the truth or even if God exists until you have experienced it! i have tasted it... not my favorite flavour...
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