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Post by Dear Dairy on Sept 12, 2006 17:28:19 GMT -5
I agree it is not a direct back and forth. They are two separate Beatrices, afterall. I just had a thought. What happened to the letters that Beatrice 1 sent to Lemony? Did he discard them all? Things would make so much more sense if we could read those letters as well. Yes, indeedy. Isn't that what we were all hoping The Beatrice Letters would be - letters from the actual Beatrice 1, she of the melancholy dedications, Lemony's love? All we have in the voice of Beatrice 1 herself is a sonnet, and the authorship of that is also questionable. We assume it was written by her and/or that she is the "speaker" of the sonnet, but we don't really know.
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Post by lulutheobsessive on Sept 12, 2006 18:57:01 GMT -5
Ashcatash, I hadn't thought about "E" as Eleanora! But he does refer to Eleanora Poe by her full name repeatedly, and never gives any of the people he's referring to by initials full names, so I thought that might mean he was indicating different people! I hadn't realized there were so many E's, though. Not as many as J's, at least, oi. . . As for so many of us newcomers here. . . This book offered so many strange little hints and possibilities. My partner and I weren't getting very far, but were really itching to see if there were theories out there we hadn't hit on. It was the first time I've ever been really desperate to go out and confer with other fans/obsessives, I've always kept myself to very few others to rant and rave on this series.. Maybe some of the others turning up were in a similar situation? This just finally drove us out of hiding!
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Post by Jacques the Environmentalist on Sept 12, 2006 20:34:21 GMT -5
Yes, it was rather annoying how Handler managed to find a way of not giving us letters from Beatrice 1. I might have known.
He referred to G who I presume is Geraldine being made fashion editor, and also E. I can't remember exactly where he mentioned E, it seems likely that it could be Eleanora, but there's also an E in the margin of Beatrice 2's first letter that almost certainly refers to Esme?
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Post by Phoebonica on Sept 13, 2006 7:06:05 GMT -5
I wonder which parts of the Baudelaires' stories "differ wildly from {Lemony's} own accounts".
Either Lemony is lying and/or mistaken about some things, the Baudelaires are lying and/or mistaken about some things, or Beatrice Two is just saying that to provoke him into replying, which is what she seems to be doing with the comment about not knowing which way is East. (He can't have that bad a sense of direction.)
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jpgr007
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 26
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Post by jpgr007 on Sept 13, 2006 9:33:57 GMT -5
Remember, Lemony is putting the UE together by doing research. He tried to follow the path of the Baudelaires and piece together what happened. He's bound to get some of it wrong - even if he's trying to present their story correctly.
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Post by Dear Dairy on Sept 13, 2006 13:31:04 GMT -5
I agree with lulutheobsessive's idea that Beatrice 2 might turn out to be Kit's daughter and thus Lemony's orphaned niece. Although I don't know why she'd be named Baudelaire, but maybe Easy: Kit's daughter, BB2, meets the Bauds some time after The End (in which Kit dies) and they get to know one another. Later she marries Klaus (thus becoming a Baud!). Some unfortunate event separates them all. She then seeks LS's help in finding them again. Yes, this theory spreads out the timeline even more, but it fits the facts as we know them - sort of. I like the idea of BB2 being Kit's daughter, mainly because of the "Lemony Snicket's niece is an orphan" Secret, but the theory doesn't fit the timeline as I perceive it. I think BB2 meets the Baud kids during the course of events of The End, and that these events also cause them to be separated.
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rym
Bewildered Beginner
Posts: 7
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Post by rym on Sept 14, 2006 0:26:42 GMT -5
Intriguing, Dairy, but that would make Beatrice 2 a ten-year-old abandoned bride, wouldn't it? Possible, but I'm not sure whether it's likely.
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Post by Dear Dairy on Sept 14, 2006 16:28:53 GMT -5
No, that's why I said "Later she marries Klaus," meaning at a time when they are both of marriageable age. That's why I also said, "It fits the facts as we know them - sort of." Some here have speculated that BB2 might be disguised as a 10-year-old when she wrote the final note in TBL.
I don't adhere to this theory, I'm just explaining a scenario that might allow her to be both Kit's daughter and have the last name Baudelaire.
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Jack
Catastrophic Captain
{always & never the same.}
Posts: 85
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Post by Jack on Sept 14, 2006 18:11:14 GMT -5
My conclusion: we are only more confused.
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Post by Sora on Sept 17, 2006 0:51:37 GMT -5
Intriguing, Dairy, but that would make Beatrice 2 a ten-year-old abandoned bride, wouldn't it? Possible, but I'm not sure whether it's likely. Stranger things have happened in A Series of Unfortunate Events, I suppose. Underage marriage has alredy occured remember. I do quite like the idea that the last little note from Beatrice was from the real Beatrice, perhaps this was when the 'sugar bowl stolen from Esme' thing occured. It would make more sense, as perhaps she purposefully made her note similar to Lemony's first letter.
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Post by Sixteen on Sept 17, 2006 4:58:35 GMT -5
I do quite like the idea that the last little note from Beatrice was from the real Beatrice, perhaps this was when the 'sugar bowl stolen from Esme' thing occured. It would make more sense, as perhaps she purposefully made her note similar to Lemony's first letter. The last letter is definitely from BB2. The card says "Rhetoric Building Floor 14". BB2 said she was staying in the room directly above Lemony, which was floor 13.
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Post by drearydreary on Sept 17, 2006 6:57:15 GMT -5
I believe strongly that BB1 is the mother of Violet, Sunny and Klaus.
In the telegram LS sent, he said that he hopes that Beatrice will have a daughter with pleasant facial features. In the Bad Beginning Chp 1, LS says the Baudelaire children had pleasant facial features.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before or if i am wrong or if this has been posted in the wrong place. If so then please delete this post.
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Post by RockSunner on Sept 17, 2006 8:00:38 GMT -5
There's also the sonnet, in which Beatrice says she ties something in her hair to keep something out of her eyes. Is this another coincidence, or an idea passed from mother to daughter?
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jpgr007
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 26
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Post by jpgr007 on Sept 17, 2006 10:22:39 GMT -5
The telegram doesn't say Beatrice's name anywhere on it. It is addressed to Mrs Baudelaire. The only thing indicating that it's to Beatrice is the LS to BB #6 stamp.
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Post by viperperm on Sept 17, 2006 13:28:14 GMT -5
I have a theory about what the sonnet means! If I'm right, then the sonnet means that Beatrice never really loved Lemony, and she just went along with it because she didn't know what else to do. Anyway, here's my edited version of the sonnet:
Lemony Snicket is tied up in my mind, As if to keep my true love out of my eyes. I cannot speak to Bertand (maybe Olaf?...), for whom I care. A hatpin serves as part of my disguise (she dropped the hatpin, to show that she wanted to have a RBF with Lemony, so it's part of her act).
In the play (play = real life), my role is Beatrice. (These next two lines are just fillers, so I'm not going to post them) ...As if sharps pins are hidden in their hats. (Another referance to hats and pins = more weight on the important of the hatpin)
My co-star lives on what we call a brae. His solitude might not be just as act (I don't think that she meant her co-star in the actual PLAY, but Lemony Snicket. Since she's reffering real life as a 'play', LS is obviously her 'co-star'.) A piece of mail fails to arrive one day. This distressing emotional story's based on fact (This made me think... maybe Beatrice sent a letter to LS confessing that she didn't love him, but Olaf, Esme or R. intercepted it, so Lemony kept on going on thinking that BB loved him, too).
The curtain falls just as the (Lemony Snicket's) puzzle unties. The silence broken by the one (Beatrice) who dies (I think that Dramatic Irony took place here, when Beatrice put those two sentences in for no reason - but in the end it actually took place. I think that when Lemony said "Count Olaf-" to Beatrice, he said: "Count Olaf told me about the letter, Beatrice. He told me how he stopped it from coming. I'm so very sorry, Beatrice, how I thought that you acutally loved me. Before, when you stopped talking to me, I thought it was because of the arson that Olaf framed me of doing...", And after that Beatrice ran or something like that. I think that after that, 'LS to BB #6' was a warning that Count Olaf was planning to kill Beatrice, Bertand, Violet, Klaus and Sunny (without knowing that Violet's (theorized) twin, Beatrice, was being raised by some member of V.F.D. (maybe to protect the Baudelaire fortune)) because he recently found out who stole the Sugar Bowl from Esme, but of course Beatrice didn't get the coded message from Lemony).
So, in all, that means that (I'm pretty sure) Beatrice was just too shy to tell Lemony about her true feelings.
Oh yeah, and one of the letters was from Mrs. Baudelaire (Beatrice #1, if I must). BB to LS #6 was from BB1, But of course they used it as a device to make BB2 look like a ten year-old.
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