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Post by Sora on May 15, 2009 20:53:51 GMT -5
At last we have reached perhaps the most perplexing volume in our ever beloved ASOUE canon - the appendice novel Lemony Snicket: The Unauthorized Autobiography. A cornucopia of retcon genius and real world/fiction world synthesis - TUA is truly staggering novel - one that deals with Snicket's birth, the origins and inner workings of VFD, the truths of Beatrice and many other minor characters and much MUCH more. As this book contains such a large amount of information relevant to the series as a whole our discussion requires as many people as possible. If you have yet to join us in our re-reading ventures: please jump on board over the next two weeks- your input is valued highly. Without further ado - let the story begin.
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Post by Sora on May 15, 2009 22:11:37 GMT -5
Excuse the double post, but my first post was purely introductory. My first thoughts on the opening pages (this really needs to be taken page by page as opposed to chapter by chapter):
First off - many of you may not have noticed, but on the copyright page of the book, where the general disclaimer notice about reproduction is placed, Snicket has added his own two cents. No part of this book may be used, reproduced, destroyed, tampered with, or eaten.......if you recognize yourself in any of the photographs or illustrations in this book you may find yourself in Very Frightening Danger and/or slightly embarrassed.... I only noticed this after about my third re-through but thought it hilarious.
The Lotsaluck kids look overtly ugly on the reverse cover of this novel - Laurie looks like a long nosed bird and Lil' Linda looks positively placid. Looney M Setnick's drawls about the novel are worth a laugh though, especially Remember, my young friends, that there is more to life than ponies and cake." Dante - does the British edition of TUA have any of the Pony Party material? I've noticed the cover is non-reversable as it is in the hardback style of the other books, which is slightly disappointing.
BTW, the page numbers I am using are from the Harper Collins original hardback edition of LSUA.
"Introduction"
page x - "Harper Collins" (or whoever fictionally publishes these books - describes their offices being in a building very similar to 667 Dark Avenue. "A tall imposing building with a wide, imposing lobby and a middle-aged imposing doorman, usually dressed in a coat too big for him." - similar right down to a doorman that sounds vaguely similar to the disguised Furnald.
page xi - I've never ascertained in all my re-readings just what the doorman at Harper Collins is trying to do by distributing pages of his 'diary' to the publishers. Or how the particular publisher writing the letter ever came to know this was a frequent action of the doorman's. Why is the diary entry introduced as Dear Dairy - when this code was supposed to be used only between the Snickets and the cheesemakers of Valorous Farms Dairy? I can only presume the doorman is distributing material that is either one: not is his own, or two: meant to be published and distributed to the cheesemakers who may be able to help Mr. Snicket through his current predicament.
page xii - I adore all of the doorman's descriptions of his surroundings, but most especially enjoy "and [she] began to speak in a voice that reminded me distinctly of her own."
Why the doorman tells the peculiar woman's story in her perspective alludes me, but it is interesting.
page xiii - The way the woman dictating the story describes 'the club' she'd never been too - almost certainly VFD - seems to suggest VFD is in a fairly good state of affairs at the time the material of LSUA was distributed to her. There appears to be no panic in the festivities, their meeting is taking place in a green mansion (something that was supposed to have finished shortly after the schism I believe) - and the insigina is emblazoned on the door.
And furthering this notion - why would R, Dutchess of Winnipeg, show up too the meeting in disguise if she was a well known member?
First intercession of Real Life and ASOUE - the reference to one of the fictional characters being related to Julie Blattberg - an real employee of Harper Collins.
page xvi - I could follow the string of narrators in our quirky introduction till this point - but then it appears Handler interrupts himself to get a brandy, then returns, and continues speaking in the voice of the man reading the manuscript in the story of the woman talking to the doorman which is written in his diary entry picked up by the publisher and included in the letter to Handler. You following? I'm not. But perhaps in a roundabout way this is suggesting that Handler was at the meeting of VFD and was in fact the man the woman overaheard talking that night. Who knows.
More comments in a moment.
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Post by Dante on May 16, 2009 3:22:54 GMT -5
I'll be going into much greater depth later today, but for now, some notes on Sora's notes: First off - many of you may not have noticed, but on the copyright page of the book, where the general disclaimer notice about reproduction is placed, Snicket has added his own two cents. No part of this book may be used, reproduced, destroyed, tampered with, or eaten.......if you recognize yourself in any of the photographs or illustrations in this book you may find yourself in Very Frightening Danger and/or slightly embarrassed.... I only noticed this after about my third re-through but thought it hilarious. The British edition adds a small further embellishment: "A CIP catalogue record for this title is available from a dark shelf in the British Library" - notes of this sort appear on the copyright pages of I assume all books published in Britain, but without the "dark shelf" aspect. Nope - in fact, I've always been disappointed with British editions of the U.A. as they feature neither that, nor the awesome photograph on the hardcover U.A. I heard that a slightly British-edition-ified version of the TPParty cover was distributed as promo material with the British release of THH, though. I think I've got saved images I found online somewhere. Ah, here we go - found this on eBay: Snapshots of the U.S. edition, for comparison - and because some of you have probably never seen them: img35.imageshack.us/img35/6733/snicketponyparty1.jpgimg36.imageshack.us/img36/2988/snicketponyparty2.jpgI've said it before, and I'll say it again - if they do a second movie, these should form the fake intro. If I recall correctly, the female narrator's tale doesn't finish until after Chapter Twelve, signifying that only Chapter Thirteen of the U.A. is "real." I'll unravel it myself later if you're having difficulty. Edit: Alright, here's the Introduction cut to pieces. Tell me if I've missed anything. Curiously, none of the British editions ever anglicised the spelling of “Unauthorized.” Anyway, there are two editions of the U.A. over here: The first was released not long after the U.S. release of the U.A., which I think means that over here it was probably published before TVV… but the “canonical” position of the U.A. is between THH and TCC, when it was published in the U.S. The second edition published here, the first having gone out of print, came out in 2007 alongside our release of Horseradish. The first edition used for its cover stock images of Snicket and the Baudelaires and had a cover that opened from the centre, like a pair of double-doors; the second edition again recycled several pieces of artwork and photograph, but was completely restyled overall to resemble an ordinary book in the series, and adds a subtitle “The unfortunate life of Lemony Snicket,” having excluded “Lemony Snicket” from the official title – which most of us do anyway, of course. Oh, and incidentally, the U.A. originally started out as a few scraps of paper that Handler and HC originally conceived of as a small booklet, but it grew out of control to the size of a full book (or at least, longer than TBB). One last thing: The photograph on the hard cover of the first release of the U.A. in the U.S. evidently depicts the meeting described in the introduction. I wonder whether or not it’s a manipulated piece of stock photography… the arms and envelope would have to be edited in, and the figure behind the envelope could be Handler. I don’t know. Here’s an upload of a version I have on file: ~Introduction~ I just have to say that I really like the introduction. As a stylistic device, introducing Handler is a bold move. Chain of narrators: Daniel Handler – receives letter from: Publishers – receive Snicket package and read diary extract from: Doorman – receives package and hears story from: Female stranger – received papers and heard story from: Male stranger – hears speech from: Older gentleman not of the stranger’s acquaintance – received package from: Aunt who may or may not be Julie Blattberg. Between Chapters Twelve and Thirteen, one of the narrators concludes their story and passes the Snicket package, Chapter Thirteen, onto a previous narrator. Which narrators we’re dealing with could be any, although it’s unlikely to be Handler or the publishers as they were reading rather than listening to the story. I always assume that it’s the Female Stranger speaking at the end of Chapter Twelve. Also note that the Older Gentleman Not Of The Stranger’s Acquaintance alludes to the possibility that the entire tale of the package may be completely fabricated, which might resolve complications arising from the existence of publishers located in buildings bearing a distinct resemblance to 667 Dark Avenue, or the continued existence of green mansions with the V.F.D. insignia on the door. Speaking of which, I shouldn’t be surprised if the scribbled V.F.D. insignia was drawn by Handler himself, and was the first imagining of the “official” insignia as it appears from then on. This makes the preceding line about having “simply terrible” writing skills a moment of tongue-in-cheek self-deprecation. Also, the writing style of the doorman bears a distinct and probably deliberate resemblance to that of the “Dear Genius” writer of 145-153. I see the U.A. page of contents as being extremely self-conscious and emblematic of the frustrating style of the later books in general – there’s a potential whole book of secrets here, answering so many of the questions much-asked by fans of the series, but then, nope, it’s a bunch of oblique and completely unexpected questions instead! Bearing in mind that the Snicket File is sometimes referred to in THH as the “Baudelaire file,” is it suggestive that xviii has Snicket referring to “the Baudelaire file” apparently in reference to his entire body of work? I remember speculation that the U.A. was in fact the Snicket File, with “pages” actually signifying “chapters,” but that idea would always have faced an uphill struggle. Speaking of photographs, I understand that many of the photographs in the U.A. are non-copyright stock photographs – probably dreamt up and dug up, like TBL’s artifacts, by Alison Donalty, Sue Rich, Lillian Sun and Chloe Fogila ( see here). However, there are a couple of pictures I suspect are of young Handler, and Julie Blattberg is a real person who did indeed take some of the photographs. See here: www.julieb.net/bio.html
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Post by liquidladylemony on May 16, 2009 9:02:51 GMT -5
THE PONY PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What have the British Done? First they mess up ASOUE then mess up twilight...ugh!
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Post by cwm on May 16, 2009 10:49:27 GMT -5
Did the 'small booklet' comprimising the original TUA ever have any published form?
I have never understood how that introduction works and probably never will.
That in mind, I will proceed directly to the chapters:
Chapter One Lemony's age when he was taken is called into question here. The letter is from Lemony himself, so unless it is a forgery somehow I would suspect the photograph at the end of the chapter is not accurate.
Chapter Two The Duchess' letter stating that Beatrice's death is the reason for ASOUE is a pretty major insinuation that Beatrice is the Baudmom ahead of time. It is confusing that she refers to the Baudelaires as 'three children' and not 'her children' or something though.
This letter retcons part of the 'to my kind editor' letter in TWW into the new canon.
Chapter Three In case there's anyone who doesn't know, as Dante tells me the 'thing that must be put back in its box immediately' is meant to be a match or a lighter. (I'd bet a match, since it has a box.)
Geraldine Julienne knows about V.F.D. How much she knows is never made clear; within the books, she's simply someone looking for a story and never mind the truth.
Chapter Four The letter here should disprove once and for all the 'Gustav, Uncle Monty's former lab assistant, is Dr. Sebald' theory.
'Second-to-last hope' - so Lemony has not yet begun publishing the tales as books at the time of this letter.
And here Zombies in the Snow is retconned to new significance.
Apparently ZitS went from completing shooting to entering the cinemas in a matter of days, since the message is very specific and not something more general that a V.F.D. member could have set up, containing an all-purpose message.
Chapter Five Does the first Night at the Theatre column contain a Sebald code message? I've tried to work one out but none seems to exist. Later on it's implied it does contain some kind of hidden message, in the letter with 'your review has changed everything...'
Done for now. More tomorrow.
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Post by Dante on May 16, 2009 11:42:50 GMT -5
Did the 'small booklet' comprimising the original TUA ever have any published form? I shouldn't think so; this was very firmly in the drafting stages, as I understand it. I've only ever read a single tiny reference to it, and I doubt I could ever find it again. How worrying; some facts persist only in my memory. This is straight from Handler, by the way.
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Post by Hermes on May 16, 2009 13:20:55 GMT -5
. Why is the diary entry introduced as Dear Dairy - when this code was supposed to be used only between the Snickets and the cheesemakers of Valorous Farms Dairy? I can only presume the doorman is distributing material that is either one: not is his own, or two: meant to be published and distributed to the cheesemakers who may be able to help Mr. Snicket through his current predicament. Wel, as Dante points out, it's not clear that any of the events described in the Introduction really happened - of if they did, how many of them. However, supposing the bit about the doorman is true, it doesn't seem impossible to me that he is Lemony Snicket (and that the subsequent story of how the papers came to him is an invention), Interestingly, the later description of the VFD diguise kit gives 'charcoal' as part of the doorman disguise - since I don't recall Fernald in TEE having any charcoal, this seems to identify the HarperCollins doorman as a VFD agent in diguise. Well, I think strictly speaking they stopped building their headquarters out of green wood - those that already existed presumably stayed in use, if no one burnt them down. Still, it's quite likely that this part of the story is made up. Actually, it says 'the letter continued', which implies it is not Handler, but one of the intermediate narrators - perhaps most probably the publisher - who interrupts to get a brandy. Brandy was of course served at the building committee meeting - and I think it turns up somewhere else, perhaps in BBRE. It seems to be a preferred drink of VFD. Nope - in fact, I've always been disappointed with British editions of the U.A. as they feature neither that, nor the awesome photograph on the hardcover U.A. Though strangely, the copyright information of the British edition still ends 'Wouldn't you rather read about ponies?' - which is rather pointless without the pony cover. It signifies something, but I'm not sure what. You're taking it that 'this package, which I give to you now' refers to what follows, Chapter 13. I had, until now, read it as referring to what precedes, Chapters 1-12. So while the frame narrative says there are thirteen chapters, in fact it only embraces twelve. I had wondered if the original thirteenth chapter was lost, and what we now have was subsituted by the publishers. Now I no longer know what to think; it may well be deliberately ambiguous. Though many of the questions asked in the original table of contents are answered, either here in a cryptic way, or later on in the series. I think it's clear that the Autobiography as we have it is not the Snicket File as described in the series. But there seems to be some connection - not only in this passage but in the later section introduced by a note from Babs to Hal. I wonder if the small collection of papers which was the forerunner of the Autobiography was meant to be the Snicket file? Something similar might be true in-story as well - that this is an expanded version of the Snicket File, to which material has been added since it was removed from the Library of Records. Certainly the Autobiography does contain one thing we know was in the Snicket File - evidence of a survivor of a fire. If my reading of chapter 13 is right - the original chapter 13 is missing - this would be another parallel between them.
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Post by Dante on May 16, 2009 14:37:51 GMT -5
Actually, it says 'the letter continued', which implies it is not Handler, but one of the intermediate narrators - perhaps most probably the publisher - who interrupts to get a brandy. Brandy was of course served at the building committee meeting - and I think it turns up somewhere else, perhaps in BBRE. It seems to be a preferred drink of VFD. It hadn't struck me that the brandy interjection wasn't from the older gentleman not of the stranger's acquaintance, largely as when the text picks up again it's back on him; however, that, too, may be deliberately ambiguous. Eh, I'll accept that. I think it's true to the spirit expressed by Snicket at other points in the series. I took Chapters 1-12 to be part of the "confusing and unnerving story," as it happens.
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Post by Dante on May 17, 2009 15:02:47 GMT -5
Well, that's twenty-four hours. Time for an update. By the by, just noticed that the cover photograph on the U.A. – the aforementioned one with the Snicket package, and a possible Handler appearance – is credited 2002 Howard Huang. www.howardhuang.com/~Chapter One~ “Who took this?” I’m inclined to see this as having a double-meaning – both “Who took this photograph?” and “Who took this child?” “Lemony Snicket, author of A Series of Unfortunate Events, the purportedly true chronicles of the Baudelaire children, was reported dead today by anonymous and possibly unreliable sources.” Sometimes people argue that the obituary is the Punctilio article Beatrice read that convinced her not to marry Lemony. Well, on the one hand she wouldn’t have written him a two-hundred book if she thought he was dead, but on the other hand, Beatrice is already dead by the time the obituary is published – because Lemony’s midway through writing aSoUE at the time of the obituary, which doesn’t happen until after Beatrice dies. That’s a gap of at least fifteen years. (I’ll confess I have myself been guilty of thinking that the obituary could have washed up on the shores of the island, convincing Beatrice and Bertrand during their time there that Lemony was dead – such are the benefits of a healthy reread.) “This period of professional contentment – and, allegedly, unrequited love – ended when news broke of his involvement with V.F.D. and the accompanying scandal was reported in these very pages.” This seems to contradict not just what we learn later but what we already know – it implies that the existence of V.F.D. as a secret organisation is well-known, or at least was at one time, but clearly that can’t be the case. However, this view seems to be perpetuated elsewhere – such as TPP’s claim that, at the time of Kit and Dewey’s childhood, V.F.D. existed publicly. As you’ve probably mostly noticed, various editions of the U.A. have the back cover copy of the obituary semi-transparent, such that another article is visible behind it. The headline appears to be dummy text, but the article text itself may be copied in from elsewhere, since I can make out a “WASHINGTON.” Incidentally, all editions of the U.A. I’ve seen stick Snicket’s note on the back cover in slightly different positions, revealing a few more lines of text than are in the Chapter One version; the funny thing is, all these versions seem to differ. One version seems to start “ Corrections,” in italics, while the 2007 Egmont U.A. has the following visible: “For --- ho wish to pay / y[?] --- ect will be held / --- -h[?]er in St” I wonder if the lorry and the coffin can be linked to the photographs from Chapter Thirteen? “that terrible reporter” – first mention (if not named) of Geraldine Julienne, indications that she is the only reporter working on the Baudelaire case. This is one of several factors that allows us to identify the unnamed reporter from THH and TCC as Julienne. The text describes Lemony’s coffin being carried into a long, black car – doubtless intended to parallel Olaf’s car, although I doubt we’re meant to think they’re the same. While Lemony’s waiting for the Prospero, it’s not clear if he actually wants to board the boat. The connection between Lemony’s musings on photography and his final sentence before the ship arrives (“That is why I am waiting here at this fogged-in harbor, in order to”) is unclear – although one would presume it was something to do with the Baudelaires’ story, or protecting his own life. This has been pointed out on this forum before, long ago, but at least one and possibly two faces in the crowd appear to have been blacked out. I forget which, if it’s at all consistent, but it’s been suggested that one of the effaced faces could be the photographer Lemony mentions, seventh row, twelfth from the left (if any actual individual was intended by this, which I somewhat doubt). “It makes me sad to think that my whole life, from the cradle to the grave, is full of errors, but at least this will not happen to the Baudelaires” – hint as to why Lemony is writing the series. Also, if I may say so, suggests that speculation that Lemony is an unreliable narrator is likely to be unfounded, although if anyone truly wants to believe this then of course it will be no problem to ignore this sentence. And indeed, why not any other? Go ahead and ignore the whole series. After all, you can’t trust any of it, can you? The popularity of “The Little Snicket Lad” seems improbable in the same way that general knowledge of V.F.D. does, but perhaps it fell out of favour after Lemony’s fall from grace. “Valorous Farms Dairy” – V.F.D. institution, coincidence? You decide! I don’t think there’s any formal link to V.F.D. among them, though. “These cheesemakers, whose names I will not reveal [Drat!]” – one of the more arcane of the U.A. annotations. Who is writing? Why is it a problem that the names of the cheesemakers is not revealed when their place of work is? The oft-villainous implications of the annotations is sometimes internally questionable, especially given that some scribbles are probably Lemony’s. It’s also been suggested that some could be Dewey’s notes, but again, the villainy. Maybe all three Denouements could’ve collaborated on it? Not that this could’ve been true at the time the U.A. was written. Despite the doorman’s usage of “Dear Dairy,” his diary entries do seem to be genuine diary entries – if he exists, and if he doesn’t, secret communication seems plausible. The U.A. is a dangerous document that some would no doubt like to destroy. “known as Jacob to everyone but his longtime bridge partner” – ah, the old musings on Jacobs, Elwyns and family trees. Nowhere to really go with this one, I think. Lemony’s siblings established as being somewhat older, probably by several years. Information about V.F.D.’s recruitment set-up – potential recruits are monitored for some time before they are taken. “The question that seems most important to me cannot ever be answered, I fear, as all of the people who would know are either dead, hiding somewhere, or enemies of mine. The question is “Who took this?”” See my previous notes on the ambiguity of this question, highlighted in the text itself. The statement that some of the people who could answer this question are now enemies has been interpreted before now as suggesting that Olaf was involved with Lemony’s taking (hence the long black car), but we know now that Lemony and Olaf must be of similar ages, so this becomes somewhat less plausible. “one worried husband” – suggests that Jacob Snicket didn’t know his children were to be recruited, or perhaps he’s naturally worried anyway. J. and K. Snicket must have been older to be drinking tea rather than milk. In context, it’s unclear why Lemony’s mother would be asking the specific question “Who took this?” – who took what? Because the thing that has been taken is not there, so what is “this”? “See note at end of chapter” and accompanying photograph – if the U.A. annotator is villainous, this is accommodated for by the previous statement that some of those involved with Lemony’s taking are now his enemies. Note that the photograph of young Lemony is not necessarily him, by his own admission, so we can’t ascertain who is right here, Lemony or the scribbler. The letter goes on to say that Jacques’s account of having been allowed to finish his tea has been disputed, indeed by Lemony’s own letter (“two half-full cups of tea”), so perhaps all three Snicket siblings could have better memories of their childhood. “One evening Jake was chopping wood, / And his wife was at the mill” … “my mother… always wished that she had delayed her investigation one more day” – suggests that Lemony’s mother was indeed at a “mill,” for an investigation. Lucky Smells? One or both of the Snicket parents may have been volunteers, or the sort of people volunteers would work with. “You’ll soon be doing noble work, / Although you won’t be paid” – for which reason they are “volunteers,” as far as I’m concerned – in addition, I think that so many volunteer families are rich is because there’s a sense of “noblesse oblige” there – they’re volunteers not just because they aren’t paid, but because they don’t need to be paid. The fact that the coda is in quotes: In the song, it suggests it’s being quoted from someone present in the story, but Lemony takes it as a more general instruction. Does this indicate the ballad was written by or with volunteers? “a well-known hymn of naval disaster” – disputed over the years; generally accepted (including by me) to refer to “Row, Row, Row Your Boat” (also mentioned in TGG), although others have suggested “The Wreck of the Hesperus” or “Gilligan’s Island.” Guys. Why don’t you just compare the musical score. Consulting an online music sheet for part of RRRYB, there are strong similarities… also differences. *shrug* Either way, it’s not the actual tune TLSL is meant to be sung to – indeed, the P.S. is probably a self-conscious allusion to the fact that Handler/HC didn’t write their own new song but just stuck in non-copyright sheet music.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 17, 2009 15:51:31 GMT -5
From what I can can make out, it sounds as if Lemony Snicket has been presumed dead on two occasions. One was when Beatrice was still alive, and the other was he was in the middle of chronicling the events of the Baudelaire orphans.
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Post by Hermes on May 17, 2009 16:18:57 GMT -5
(I’ll confess I have myself been guilty of thinking that the obituary could have washed up on the shores of the island, convincing Beatrice and Bertrand during their time there that Lemony was dead – such are the benefits of a healthy reread.) Given that Beatrice certainly did think he was dead while she was on the island, that implies he has been presumed dead at least twice. Why, exactly? The Quagmires found evidence of Olaf's connection with VFD in newspaper archives, so clearly it had at one time been reported on. If the events which made it notorious happened fifteen years ago, or more, it's likely many people will have forgotten about it by now - and children may never have heard of it. In any case, I get the sense that a lot of the time VFD isn't really deeply concealed - it relies on people's tendency not to look too closely, not to draw too many connections, and so on. That's rather different, I think. Presumably, if you go back far enough, it must have existed openly, because it was a Volunteer Fire Department - why conceal that? But more recently, it seems to have been a body which tries to operate in secret, but sometimes fails to conceal itself fully. Um. I think it is possible to read this line as a piece of dramatic irony. Yes, I wondered that. I'm not sure - it's a report of today's events, but that doesn't mean it's not intended for a secret repository. I found it puzzling that Lemony found it puzzling. But that it was indeed written by volunteers is supported by the fact that, according to TSS, it seems that Beatrice sang it to her children when they were young. Edit: From what I can can make out, it sounds as if Lemony Snicket has been presumed dead on two occasions. One was when Beatrice was still alive, and the other was he was in the middle of chronicling the events of the Baudelaire orphans. Snap!
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Post by Dante on May 17, 2009 16:57:02 GMT -5
Given that Beatrice certainly did think he was dead while she was on the island, that implies he has been presumed dead at least twice. I don't really count the later presumption of death that occurs in relation to the U.A. obituary and therefore after the events of the series have taken place, because - well, it doesn't really do anything interesting. It strikes me as narratively unlikely that the Baudelaire children would never ever ever have heard of V.F.D. ever. I will accept an answer of "near misses," given that Klaus could've read a book in TRR which would've contained information on V.F.D. (depending on your interpretation of "secret chapter," I guess). Not that it was a Volunteer Fire Department in Kit and Dewey's childhood. Pfah! Be off with you. I have no interest in Lemony writing a series of slanderous events. Duly noted.
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Post by Sora on May 18, 2009 4:31:39 GMT -5
Chapter 2 Notes
..."when I arrived at the Orion Observatory to give my annual lecture to the Meteorological Society..." Thanks for keeping us up to date on your actions R, because that's really what Lemony needs to hear right now. Interesting she is at Orion Observatory though, didn't think that was going to crop up again.
I am sorry that I was unable to prevent, or at least delay, your capture at my masked ball that evening.... We've had this discussion many many times about the numerous 'masked balls' referenced in ASOUE, but really which one are we talking about? Is she apologizing about the ball over fifteen years previous? Has she not spoken to Lemony over this entire time?
..there are not many of us left, Mr. Snicket, but we are ready to help you in any way we can. Why have you not helped Lemony or the Baudelaires at all over this fifteeen year interim then? How useless are you people?
And then there is all this discussion about 'I'm sorry I couldn't find your stuff, I was causing a distraction with my wig, blah blah' - which just further convolutes this entire masked ball complex, because is Lemony writing about something he has been missing for fifteen years?
Interesting - Handler and Snicket are accordion fans.
And herein lies the wub: "Beatrice, of course, is far past complaining about lost possesions-" because she's stone cold dead and the dead have other things to think about. I'm sorry but this sentence makes no sense at all, and seems to suggest this letter was written by a fake R who doesn't know who Beatrice really is. If Beatrice has been dead for several months, why write about her in such a queer manner? And how is this statement about poor dead Beatrice justification for an investigation into her children - it hardly connects Beatrice to Lemony in sort of relationship platonic or otherwise which would drive Lemony to take an obsessive interest into the Baudelaires.
R lists snacks first - a subtle hint at gluttony, and hence a sinful enemy?
"which still sit in a heap, awaiting the beginning of the trial." - what trial? Lemony's trial? Olaf's? If I trusted Snicket at all I would be inclined to think it was the trial at Hotel Denouement in TPP. But that would be just too pleasant and convenient.
So R got to visit home after she was taken? Is this another example, not mentioned by Snicket, of the false nature of the letter?
Is only one copy of Ivan Lachrymose carrying secret documents in the middle of the book, or do they all? Do they all have the same tape of Arthur and Eleanora or is there something more?
So the Winnipeg mansion was burnt down. Was this the product of the actions suggested by MWBBNH and WWHBNB in TSS - the burning of the Winnipeg's to steal the Winnipeg fortune?
I love these photographs. I know they are stock photography but it beautifully created the illusion of a real secret world for me when I first read the series.
Then the note to file: "This letter reached me here at Veblen Hall, where I am waiting to interview some of the caterers about who exactly was driving the car that terrible day." - Huh? Is Snicket referring to the events of TEE? And if so, why the vagueness in 'that terrible day'? Was Snicket's death reported before TEE? This of course calls into question when the books were written in terms of the Baudelaires timeline and all that lovely jazz - but then again I've always wondered if Veblen Hall was the building the truck is driving past in the Chapter 13 photo montage. A 'terrible day' would suggest crying for extended periods of time - though what events would be considered terrible in A Series of Terrible Events is debatable.
So this letter is written before Prufrock Prep was burnt down- so thus before the writing of TAA?
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Post by Dante on May 18, 2009 7:15:54 GMT -5
So R got to visit home after she was taken? Is this another example, not mentioned by Snicket, of the false nature of the letter? Well, Lemony got to go home, too. "Rarely" rather than "never," but he still got to go. My notes rather overlap with yours, Sora: ~Chapter Two~ Having read TBL, I now find it hard to read “Is this letter authentic?” without speculating a link to the initial taped directly below it… “Vivez l’esprit” apparently means “embrace the spirit,” and may be some sort of town motto for Winnipeg. Note: If the Duchess writing is an impostor, I wonder how she came by Lemony’s letter? And whether the fact she’s an impostor has anything to do with the safety of the real R.? Lemony’s capture at the masked ball doesn’t ever seem to have been of particular significance, although I think some of you have linked it to Lemony’s apparent imprisonment in offhand remarks in the series? The thrust of Lemony’s query seems to have been regarding an item that could’ve been hidden in the Duchess of Winnipeg’s mansion – one must, of course, default to the sugar bowl. “Everything in that guest room is gone, and all the things in the guest room next door. Beatrice, of course, is far past complaining about lost possessions” – implies that Lemony and Beatrice were staying in adjoining guest rooms? “Beatrice, of course, is far past complaining about lost possessions – the very reason, I am certain, that you have dedicated your life to researching the lives of those three poor children.” Implication being that the children are “lost possessions” of Beatrice, or that they are in some way linked to a similar tragedy? Consider Lemony’s earlier implication that he is writing to prevent the Baudelaires from suffering as he has. “Gone are the drapes, except for the fireproof ones, which still sit in a heap, awaiting the beginning of the trial.” Unfortunately, nobody submits fireproof drapes at the trial in TPP. If Handler had invented the TPP trial already at this point, and this is an extremely far-back piece of foreshadowing to it, then bravo. On the other hand, the TPP trial rather comes out of nowhere. Your thoughts? Lemony’s underground map of the city is so rare and special that all the Winnipeg napkins have it embroidered on the other side. Or does “the city” here refer to the city of Winnipeg rather than to “the city” we know and love? The napkin Lemony received had no such map – but is that a genuine napkin, or a false one? “…one moment you and I were becoming friends in the infirmary, telling each other stories to distract us from the pain in our ankles, and the next moment the entire organisation was scattered” If the author of the letter here is an impostor, then “How content that young woman looks, don’t you think? How content, and yet how flammable” takes on a rather more sinister tone. “This letter reached me here at Veblen Hall, where I am waiting to interview some of the caterers about who exactly was driving the car that terrible day” – reference to the conclusion of TEE, or to another event entirely, e.g. Chapter 13? Although the Chapter 13s of TEE and the U.A. have a truck, not a car… The advanced computer is, we learn, capable of manufacturing photographs.
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Post by cwm on May 18, 2009 13:17:06 GMT -5
...Prufrock Prep burning down? Are you sure you're not confusing your chronologies, S? I don't recall anything being established beyond the fact that it was shut down.
Now, where was I? Ah yes, five chapters in.
Chapter Five (cont.) Lemony's attempts to warn the reader of the real reason he was fired turn to blurred text partway through. I'd always assumed that this blurring was a result of this copy being pulled off the printing press before it was done printing, creating the smears.
However, I quite recently read a post somewhere suggesting that it was a result of the ink becoming diluted because it was in water, as suggested by the note at the beginning of the chapter. Anyone know if either theory is more valid?
Chapter Six Lemony's face appears to have been deliberately removed from the photograph of the sailors, given that only it is missing and it is torn out fairly neatly.
What significance the sugar bowl has in the V.F.D. disguise kit is unclear, and doesn't seem to fit with what we learn in TPP. Either Handler hadn't planned TPP - including Esme's remarks - at the time, or there are multiple sugar bowls with everyone assuming that they are all referring to the same one.
Looking at the blueprint of the Prospero, it appears to be quite impossible for Lemony to get from the Front Gate to the Main Bridge without crossing any of the decks - something the letter forbids him to do. And yet he appears to make it there successfully.
Chapter Seven More smeared writing, and in a similar circumstance, too - the issue in question was apparently pulled (switching the 'Murder' issue for the 'Accident' issue).
The significance of the stain being black ink rather than coffee is never elaborated on...unless this detective got the ink on him as he pulled the 'Murder' issue of TDP off the printing press before it could be published!!
Chapter Eight According to somebody's opinions on the THH thread (can't remember who posted it - sorry), the person who chopped down the telephone poles on Rarely Ridden Road did so whilst the Baudelaires were speaking to the operator at the beginning of TCC, hence the operator's failure to reply. Since there was still a dialtone and that sort of thing makes a lot of noise, however, this seems unlikely to me.
So the explanation provided here for the Baudelaires never receiving a reply from Mr. Poe is that he simply gave instructions for all telegrams to be ignored. Quigley states in TSS that the telegram 'never arrived'. Quite how he appears to have reached a completely incorrect conclusion is unknown. I suspect he knows more than he's letting on and that at least part of his story of what he did after the Quagmire fire is fabricated or leaving out the whole truth.
Eleanora Poe's fate is never revealed, although apparently her being locked in the basement of the TDP offices occurs around the same time as THH.
Kit is apparently planning to read ASOUE to her students - assuming this *is* Kit Snicket - thereby throwing the series timeline into an even worse confusion.
Chapter Ten Another retcon - TDP reported Uncle Monty's death as an 'accident'.
Lemony begins composing TBB prior to the events of THH, thereby plunging the series timeline into an insane bubbling pot of molten timelines and alternating events. The only possible explanation here to redeem the madness is parallel universes...or that some part of TUA is a forgery.
One last thing (I couldn't make any particularly valid comments on the last three chapters). Is it true that some parts of the Snicket file are shown in TUA?
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