Psychological issues of the characters?

[Jenny]

I was reading an old thread about this today, and Emma and I decided it might be good if we opened the discussion again. I think that thread expired in 2005, so the discussion might be even better now that we all know how the books ended and have had time to analyse all of the characters.

So! What psychological issues do you think the ASoUE characters probably have?

[Emma “Emmz” Squalor]

Esme: She is easily a narcissist (which was mentioned on the other thread, but still something I've always believed), as she lacks remorse for her wrongdoings and takes no responsibility for her actions. Her relationship with Olaf appears to be unhealthy, judging by his criminal background. Esme is more than eager to choose him over Jerome, who comes across as the ideal partner.

Jerome: He strikes me as the type who would suffer from some form of obsessive-compulsive disorder, considering his enormous tie collection. And although it isn't canon, I can't help but picture him as being extremely shy and having a lot of social issues. In my mind, his father fought a lot with his mother when he was growing up, which spawned his intense dislike of arguing.

Carmelita: It's non-canon, but I personally see her suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder following the events at the Hotel Denouement-- in particular, the death of Dewey Denouement.

[Elle]

I don't see why (canon) Jerry would have OCD... If anything, Dewey would. Honestly, he organized every single detail of his hotel based on the DDC. And Kit clearly suffers from clinical depression. I don't think we've ever seen her happy. Plus she got all suicidal in TE.

[Jenny]

I agree that there's probably a case for some sort of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder for Dewey, or just mass organization. The same is probably true for Jerome: the tie collection struck me as odd at first, because on the whole Jerome seems rather sensible about how he spends money (ie the In Auction statue) and yet he's somehow built an enormous collection of ties?

Esme

Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements);

Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;

Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);

Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);

Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favourable priority treatment;

Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;

Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;

Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking). Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.

[Very Funky Disco]

I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder could also apply to Vice Principal Nero.

[Dante]

For Jerome, how about dependent personality disorder?

[Emma “Emmz” Squalor]

Elle: I agree that Dewey is most certainly obsessive-compulsive, as well as with your theory on Kit's clicical depression.

Very Funky Disco: Narsissistic personality disorder is very true of Vice Principal Nero, and sheds some more light on his egotistical beliefs.

Dante: Jerome definitely fits into the category of dependent personality disorder. This would really explain his passive behaviors (such as agreeing with Esme to take the Baudelaires to Cafe Salmonella, when he makes it clear that he doesn't like salmon).

[Hermes]

Dependent personality disorder - Charles, as well? (But how would you classify Sir?)

I agree on Kit's depression and Esme and Nero's narcissism - I'm not so sure about Dewey's OCD. The Hotel Denouement is based on a real hotel; I see the Dewey classification as a way of attracting (and confusing) guests rather than a psychological compulsion.

[Elle]

Yes, but consider the catalog... That's pretty OCD too... Plus, I think Dewey might have AvPD

[Jenny]

I think Dewey might have AvPD

Yes, certainly some elements, like the lack of interpersonal contact. I'm not sure how to classify Sir, either: it might just be me, but I remember really relatively little about his actual character except for the smoke cloud Perhaps I'll take Book 4 and Book 12 on holiday and try to come up with something!

I also couldn't agree more about Jerome's DPD--it's the first one I've seen that conforms to his intense dislike of arguing.

Also, for Olaf Antisocial Personality Disorder[/u]

Diagnostic Criteria[/u]

1 Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

2 Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

3 Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;

4 Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

5 Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

6 Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

7 Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

Symptoms[/u]

1 Persistent lying or stealing (obviously appropriate)

2 Superficial charm (not really; he's unkempt and not exactly charismatic from the way he's described.)

3 Apparent lack of remorse or empathy; inability to care about hurting others (again, obvious reasons.)

4 Inability to keep jobs or stay in school (we know acting in his own plays isn't one of the most stable jobs in the world.)

5 Impulsivity and/or recklessness (perhaps, I can't think of an example)

6 Lack of realistic, long-term goals — an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals (well, he's never successful)

7 Inability to make or keep friends, or maintain relationships such as marriage (has no real friendships that we see, relationships mentioned in books seem to fail or have previously failed).

8 Poor behavioral controls — expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper (obviously.)

9 Narcissism, elevated self-appraisal or a sense of extreme entitlement (best actor in the world, etc)

10 A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria) (not so much)

11 A history of childhood conduct disorders (we have no idea, but it's probably likely)

12 Recurring difficulties with the law (YES)

13 Tendency to violate the boundaries and rights of others (YES)

14 Substance abuse (we have no idea, excessive wine consumption?)

15 Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights (YES)

16 Inability to tolerate boredom (would arguably be the case)

17 Disregard for the safety of self or others (bad example, but no hemet in TVV and of course arson consequences)

18 Persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social rules, norms, and obligations (YES)

19 People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures (evidently didn't fit into VFD very well)

[Hermes]

Jul 1, 2009 12:03:50 GMT -5 Elle said:

Plus, I think Dewey might have AvPD

Yes, that makes sense.

Part of that description, though not all of it, reminded me of Kevin. What do you think he has?

[Elle]

Not sure about Kevin. But since we're talking about fanon... What about eating disorders?

Reason for Editing: Capitalization and/or Punctuation Error

[Emma “Emmz” Squalor]

Yeah, I'm not sure about Kevin, either-- though it's pretty clear in the books that he has some serious self-esteem issues.

As for eating disorders, I can easily picture Esme suffering from bulimia nervosa.

[Jenny]

This honestly did worry me a little bit. I was shockingly honest. I think maybe people should take it, just to perhaps gain a better understanding of the personality disorders.

My results:

Disorder | Rating
Paranoid: High
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: Moderate
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Low
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: Moderate
Dependent: Low
Obsessive-Compulsive: Low

Ahem...Fanon!Esmé as catalogued by Emma would have bulimia, and it's not something I can't see happening canon-wise. I'm not sure about Kevin...I guess he's a bit of a hypochondriac in some ways?

[Hermes]

I do wonder about tests like that. I found myself constantly saying 'Well, in one way... but in another way...', or when it asked 'Do you frequently....' wondering what counted as frequently. I suspect by these criteria everyone will come out as having some disorder or other.

I won't actually post my results, but my distribution was the same as yours - high for two disorders, moderate for four and low for four. So I think this may be quite normal.