The Great 667 Re-Read - Final Part: The End

[Christmas Chief]

Well, she might just mean that Olaf can't be Kit because he's not a woman. But it turns out later that Kit is a friend of her estranged husband, so they probably have met before.

The name Kit can be for a woman or man, so I'm asuming it's because, as you said, of her husband's connections.

That will emerge later - Ishmael is an old member of VFD. (Or were you not actually asking, just pointing out something that's puzzling when we first read it?)

More so as to the fact that though yes, Ishmael is involved with V.F.D., how/ why Olaf would meet up with him, or how they would reconize each other after so many years. (Which leads me to believe something happened between them, good or bad.)

- that there is no such gigantic secret; there is only the large and mysterious world, in which we may find answers, but they wil always bring further questions?

Yeah, I'd say it was that one, it just fits in with the Snicket style of writing. You get some answers, but a lot more questions.

'Do you think that the history of VFD is the only story in the world?' This is a bit ironic, because earlier in the series, especially in TUA and the following books, it looked very much as if it was; everything and everyone turned out to have a VFD connection, even if that was unsuspected when we met them.

I have the same thoughts. In fact, I can't think of anything in ASOUE or its supplementary materials that doesn't eventually come back to V.F.D.

It seems that, though the Baudelaires only see the faces of Erewhon and Finn, and only they speak, there are more people present.

In what way?

'The nighttime digger may actually be planting a tree to surprise his niece...' - looking forward to TBL, and Lemony's meeting with his niece?

I wonder what type of tree? An apple tree, maybe? With bitter apples...? I know it's a hypothetical case, but so are some of the others.

And the Baudelaires have another sleepless night, though they have had a few nights to catch up since the last one.

I gave up on keeping up with the Baudelaires and their sleep, it's just so confusing.

Edit: Something just occured to me: It's intresting how the Baudelaires and the islanders are refered to as seperate groups of people, since the Baudelaires are officialy accepted by Ishmael onto the island.

[cwm]

Will be contributing a major write-up today, promise.

[Dante]

I'm finding The End really uninspiring so far. I only have a couple of nitpicks from Chapter Three.

---

~Chapter Three~

I wonder when Ishmael found it necessary to begin the “injured feet” trick. Presumably at the time someone capable of recognising the V.F.D. insignia arrived on the island – Thursday, for example. But on the other hand, that wouldn’t prevent other people from mentioning it, even if they didn’t understand it… but perhaps it’s like the fact that Friday’s father didn’t die in a manatee accident after all. The practical problems with Ishmael’s feet of clay have, I think, already been raised, at least in part; it’s evidently not something that we need to worry about much, though. Questions like “where does he sleep?” and “how does he creep about without anyone noticing?” won’t really help us much.

“…anyone who wishes to leave our colony indicates their decision by taking a bite of bitter apple and spitting it onto the ground before boarding the outrigger and bidding us farewell.” I’ll be suggesting a potential origin for this custom, or part of this custom, later – assuming nobody else gets to it first. I wonder what the whole thing symbolises as an Eden allegory, though? In biting the apple, you’re rejecting the laws of the community and necessitating your expulsion, but what does the following rejection of the apple then represent?

“The Baudelaires could have told the island facilitator about all of Count Olaf’s schemes, from his vicious murder of Uncle Monty to his betrayal of Madame Lulu at the Caligari Carnival.” Eh? Olaf never lifted a finger against Lulu. That was all Esmé’s doing, kept entirely secret from Olaf.

“Justice Strauss, who turned out to be more useful than they had first thought” – uh, not really. “Fiona, who turned out to be more treacherous than they had imagined” – actually, she was just about exactly as treacherous as they imagined, although if we’re describing Justice Strauss as “useful,” then why not, I guess.

---

Sept 16, 2009 16:45:11 GMT -5 Hermes said:

That's a good question. Immediately, I suppose he found it on the coastal shelf, where it had washed up, as everything eventually does. But how it got to the coastal shelf - how it got to be in the water in the first place - is a bit of a mystery. (But I guess we sholuldn't probe too deeply; the same question might arise for a lot of other things that are there, like the fanbelt, triangular picture frames, etc.)

I think it's probably relatively easy to trace back the flame-imitating dress, although if I recall correctly there's later something which implies its history predates Esmé too. Since the flame-imitating dress was last known to be aboard Olaf's submarine in TGG - Esmé alludes to it, she says that Fiona's mother's ring would go well with it - and since that submarine was last seen at sea in the hands of Fernald and Fiona, and since Fernald and Fiona are last known to have apparently transferred to a different submarine, it seems likely that the Carmelita was wrecked, or abandoned and then wrecked, possibly in the same circumstances as the Queequeg's improbable destruction. From there the ocean currents might well snatch up the flame-imitating dress and carry it away to the island. See also my notes in a few days on the Chapter Five illustration.

But, following on very neatly from Sherryann's point, this chapter raises a new question - how does O know about what Ishmael is doing now? We'll later discover that he learnt that Ishmael was still hiding out on the island from his associate Monday - one of the two women who sailed away with the snake, perhaps?

I think those two have sometimes been identified as the white-faced women, and quite possibly we're at least meant to be reminded of them. I don't think either of them would be suitable candidates for Monday, though. But you never know. Conceivably Olaf inferred a great deal from Chapter Six, although I haven't reread it yet.

'a secret so gigantic and important that it could not fit into their hearts and minds, something that had been hidden their entire lives and might destroy their entire lives if it were revealed.' Are we meant to suppose
- that we are told this secret later in the book? (But though we are told several secrets, nothing seems to fit this description.)
- that the secret remains hidden?
- that there is no such gigantic secret; there is only the large and mysterious world, in which we may find answers, but they wil always bring further questions? I'm guessing the last - after all, Olaf doesn't say anything as precise as that there is a gigantic secret, just that there are many things the Baudelaires don't know. I think the attitude of the Baudelaires here is rather like the attitude of many fans before The End was published; it wasn't so much that they wanted the answer to specific questions, though they did, but that they wanted The Answer which would explain everything. But there is no such thing (and in my view, which I know not everyone shares, was never meant to be).

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. It's like the metaphor at the end of Chapter Twelve of TPP. Compare "When unfathomable situations arose in the lives of the Baudelaires, and they did not know what to do, the children often felt as if they were balancing very delicately on top of something very fragile and very dangerous, and that if they weren’t careful they might fall a very long way into a sea of wickedness" to "Listening to him talk felt like standing on the edge of a deep well, or walking on a high cliff in the dead of night." It's not a specific secret being referred to - although if it is, it's the nature of the Question Mark, which is the allusion that brings mention of a singular "secret" into the passage. "It was as if there was something villainous that could threaten them even if it were locked up tight, far away from the rest of the world." The way I'm reading this is that Olaf's knowledge is terribly corrupting. Actually, I think in this particular chapter he is at his most sinister in the entire series. The things he knows have turned him into the most monstrous, heartless individual, and the Baudelaires fear becoming like him, because once that happens, you can't ever go back. It's the transition from innocence to experience, a key theme in any Eden allegory, and in this case presented negatively. "...although it felt like a secret that could not be avoided, the children wanted to avoid it anyway..." Whether it's death, or the experience and knowledge that comes with being an adult, then, like Peter Pan on his own faraway island, the Baudelaires are afraid of it. They'll have to come to accept it their own way, rather than being conducted into the dark abyss of Olaf's soul, where they'll never be able to believe in anything again.

It seems that, though the Baudelaires only see the faces of Erewhon and Finn, and only they speak, there are more people present.

I'll have to ask about this too. Is it because of the "several figures" reference at the start of the chapter, huddled around the flashlight? "Several" would usually refer to more than two people, but given that only two people are seen and speak and that I don't see any other indication that there are more people present, then I'd just say that that's awkward, or intentionally ambiguous, wording.

Sept 16, 2009 17:09:52 GMT -5 Christmas Chief said:

Edit: Something just occured to me: It's intresting how the Baudelaires and the islanders are refered to as seperate groups of people, since the Baudelaires are officialy accepted by Ishmael onto the island.

Nice thinking. Although of course the Baudelaires may be accepted, but they don't remain that way for long, and they still seem to feel quite separate.

[Hermes]

Sept 16, 2009 17:09:52 GMT -5 Christmas Chief said:

More so as to the fact that though yes, Ishmael is involved with V.F.D., how/ why Olaf would meet up with him, or how they would reconize each other after so many years. (Which leads me to believe something happened between them, good or bad.)

Something certainly happened - this will be revealed later.

I have the same thoughts. In fact, I can't think of anything in ASOUE or its supplementary materials that doesn't eventually come back to V.F.D.

Yes. In some cases the connection is less close than in others - one wouldn't suspect Heimlich Hospital was linked with VFD, for instance, if it weren't for a letter in TUA (though Hal certainly becomes a volunteer later). But its always there - Sir supplied timber to VFD; Prufrock Prep had a VFD librarian, and children were sometimes recruited from there; and so on.

Sept 17, 2009 5:55:14 GMT -5 Dante said:

I'm finding The End really uninspiring so far. I only have a couple of nitpicks from Chapter Three.

Yes. The early chapters don't have that much. I think it changes dramatically round about chapter 9.

“The Baudelaires could have told the island facilitator about all of Count Olaf’s schemes, from his vicious murder of Uncle Monty to his betrayal of Madame Lulu at the Caligari Carnival.” Eh? Olaf never lifted a finger against Lulu. That was all Esmé’s doing, kept entirely secret from Olaf.

Might the Baudelaires not have spotted this - they see Esme and Olaf simply as colleagues in villainy, not grasping the underlying jealousy?

.

“Fiona, who turned out to be more treacherous than they had imagined” – actually, she was just about exactly as treacherous as they imagined---

Well, as Violet imagined. Klaus had trouble accepting it. And even V didn't think it immediately, only when she found the cutting about Fernald.

I think it's probably relatively easy to trace back the flame-imitating dress, although if I recall correctly there's later something which implies its history predates Esmé too. Since the flame-imitating dress was last known to be aboard Olaf's submarine in TGG - Esmé alludes to it, she says that Fiona's mother's ring would go well with it - and since that submarine was last seen at sea in the hands of Fernald and Fiona, and since Fernald and Fiona are last known to have apparently transferred to a different submarine, it seems likely that the Carmelita was wrecked, or abandoned and then wrecked, possibly in the same circumstances as the Queequeg's improbable destruction. From there the ocean currents might well snatch up the flame-imitating dress and carry it away to the island. See also my notes in a few days on the Chapter Five illustration.

Fair enough. I had always supposed (to the extent that one can suppose anything) that the Carmelita had to be abandoned because the children who were its power-source were liberated. It could easily have been wrecked after that, though.

I think those two have sometimes been identified as the white-faced women, and quite possibly we're at least meant to be reminded of them. I don't think either of them would be suitable candidates for Monday, though.

Because you wouldn't expect people leaving with the snake to be villainous? But then how do we get Monday in? She told O that Ishmael was still hanging out on the island; that suggests she had been there; so she must be in one of the groups Ishmael describes as leaving. Though I think his language is vague enough that there may have been more groups than the two he mentions.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. It's like the metaphor at the end of Chapter Twelve of TPP. Compare "When unfathomable situations arose in the lives of the Baudelaires, and they did not know what to do, the children often felt as if they were balancing very delicately on top of something very fragile and very dangerous, and that if they weren’t careful they might fall a very long way into a sea of wickedness" to "Listening to him talk felt like standing on the edge of a deep well, or walking on a high cliff in the dead of night." It's not a specific secret being referred to - although if it is, it's the nature of the Question Mark, which is the allusion that brings mention of a singular "secret" into the passage. "It was as if there was something villainous that could threaten them even if it were locked up tight, far away from the rest of the world." The way I'm reading this is that Olaf's knowledge is terribly corrupting. Actually, I think in this particular chapter he is at his most sinister in the entire series. The things he knows have turned him into the most monstrous, heartless individual, and the Baudelaires fear becoming like him, because once that happens, you can't ever go back. It's the transition from innocence to experience, a key theme in any Eden allegory, and in this case presented negatively. "...although it felt like a secret that could not be avoided, the children wanted to avoid it anyway..." Whether it's death, or the experience and knowledge that comes with being an adult, then, like Peter Pan on his own faraway island, the Baudelaires are afraid of it. They'll have to come to accept it their own way, rather than being conducted into the dark abyss of Olaf's soul, where they'll never be able to believe in anything again.

That's very helpful. Hm. Peter Pan - yes - why aren't there any explicit Peter Pan references? (Just as there aren't any explicit Princess Bride references, which I'm sure is another source for this book.) Symbolically, I'm sure you're right; and when the Baudelaires do bite the apple, this leads to an acceptance both of adulthood and of death. But still, O does seem to be speaking of facts, including facts about themselves, that they don't know, and after this they do set out looking for answers. So I think this passage does also point towards the theme that we can't know everything - and while the Great Unknown is a symbol of death, it is also just a symbol of how much is unknown.

I'll have to ask about this too. Is it because of the "several figures" reference at the start of the chapter, huddled around the flashlight? "Several" would usually refer to more than two people, but given that only two people are seen and speak and that I don't see any other indication that there are more people present, then I'd just say that that's awkward, or intentionally ambiguous, wording.

Well, I was guessing the others don't want to give themselves away. And if there were just two, how much huddling would they have to do? But perhaps he's just using 'several' in a misleading way.

[Dante]

Sept 17, 2009 6:45:43 GMT -5 Hermes said:

Yes. The early chapters don't have that much. I think it changes dramatically round about chapter 9.

Just doing one chapter a day, it'll be a week before I get there... but I'm quite busy at the moment, however, so I don't really have the willpower to increase my rate of output.

Might the Baudelaires not have spotted this - they see Esme and Olaf simply as colleagues in villainy, not grasping the underlying jealousy?

Conceivably. Or it's just an attempt to summarise or simplify the situation which in this case ends up rather flawed and misleading... it's not like Olaf did nothing wicked in TCC, and there's nothing to show that he was angry or upset by Madame Lulu's death, as you might expect.

Because you wouldn't expect people leaving with the snake to be villainous? But then how do we get Monday in? She told O that Ishmael was still hanging out on the island; that suggests she had been there; so she must be in one of the groups Ishmael describes as leaving. Though I think his language is vague enough that there may have been more groups than the two he mentions.

Quite the reverse, actually - if anything, I don't think the white-faced women are villainous enough. That is to say - well, what do we know about Monday? She was on the island at one point while Ishmael was in charge, and she was blackmailing an old man involved in a political scandal at the time she told Olaf that Ishmael was on the island. I don't get the impression that Monday is working as part of a pair or a team - she's identified very individually. I don't see the white-faced women being described that way. However, as I said, it could nonetheless be one of them.

Well, I was guessing the others don't want to give themselves away. And if there were just two, how much huddling would they have to do? But perhaps he's just using 'several' in a misleading way.

The way I'd always read it was that there were just the two people. I think that if there were any others there would be more evidence than just an interpretation of "several" which doesn't contradict the possibility of there being only two people. I mean come on, all he has to do is say "the other shadowy figures in the gloom" at some point. I'll agree the line with the several figures huddling isn't how I would write it if there were only two people, but perhaps it could be dismissed as an artifact of the editing process from a draft of the novel in which there were more than two people there. Alternatively, it's just accidentally or deliberatley vague.

[cwm]

Chapter One
It's strange how Handler feels it necessary to repeat the basic plot at the beginning of every book. How many people are going to pick the 13th book up first?

Early versions of the audiobook missed out a large chunk of the text in this chapter, about a page and a half early on I believe. It may have been fixed in later versions.

The weird thing about The End is that Olaf's character seems to regress into a bumbling villain. Even with his ridiculous laugh in TGG, he's always threatening, but here his constant insistence on releasing the Medusoid Mycelium whilst he's in the vincinity - more on that later - seems intensely irritating and ridiculous. Does he just not mind at this stage if he dies or not? Is he denying the reality that all his dreams - the Baudelaire fortune, et al - are over, not accepting them until the end? I suppose this is us seeing the character stripped of every last defence, every ally, and every real hope - I'm just not sure how successful it is here.

Chapter Two
It took me a while to realise that Lemony states he is unable to describe the horrors of a storm at sea... and then he immediately does so.

The Baudelaires have a lucky escape here, in that the diving helmet could have broken against something when it broke off.

"It is difficult to abandon someone in a place where everything is already abandoned" - Not really. Just tell them, "Right, I'm abandoning you". Then again, he has the harpoon gun and everything.

Chapter Three
The Baudelaires are defying the colony's customs right from the off. I think the seeds of the finale are planted very early on here - the book does feel like the natural culmination of the series, because some of the elements of the story have been there right from the beginning, even if Handler didn't know it at the time.

Chapter Four
Ishmael's arguments for not keeping the items start out reasonable, then degrade quickly.

"After Friday abandoned him, he'd never dare approach the island" - is this really what Ishmael thinks? How well does he know Count Olaf?

Magic?! Hoo boy, these are some gullible gullible islanders.

Chapter Five
Helquist's illustration doesn't seem to match the description somehow...

Missing Madame Lulu's fortune telling tent seems strange, given that when they were there they were in a situation of some urgency. Klaus was only in Charles' library for about two seconds, so I don't see why he'd miss it.

Chapter Six
This book breaks every single taboo of the series, yet at the same time seems a callback to older books. The 'Olaf disguises himself to fool the new guardians' formula hasn't really been used since TVV, and here it doesn't work at all, for the first time ever.

Olaf seems to know right from the start that his disguise is going to fail - "I should be welcomed to Olaf-Land and given gifts"? He's digging himself a massive hole with all his lies and probably knows it, so his immediate reaction is to pile more lies on top. Like Katie Price.

Olaf still thinks he can intimidate the Baudelaires. He just doesn't seem to grow up or evolve beyond a villain at all... it took quite a while for him to be given any depth at all, not until the V.F.D. plot kicked in, and once he got it it didn't develop much.

Friday is a good judge of character by ASoUE standards, knowing that the Incredibly Deadly Viper is friendly and that Count Olaf is not despite seeming evidence to the contrary... Ishmael must be a good actor, or she's simply too timid to do anything else. Probably a mixture of both.

I'll be on holiday all weekend. Might contribute some more Sunday night.

[Dante]

Thanks for contributing, cwm.

Sept 17, 2009 10:07:27 GMT -5 cwm said:

It's strange how Handler feels it necessary to repeat the basic plot at the beginning of every book. How many people are going to pick the 13th book up first?

I think it's more that fans who aren't especially devoted to the series - casual fans, that is - may not remember too clearly what happened in the previous books, so this reminder is common courtesy. But nonetheless, other stuff does happen beyond the recap.

Early versions of the audiobook missed out a large chunk of the text in this chapter, about a page and a half early on I believe. It may have been fixed in later versions.

Now that is fascinating - heh, even worse than missing out some of the illustrations. Do you have any memory at all of what sorts of bits went missing?

Helquist's illustration doesn't seem to match the description somehow...

I like Helquist's illustrations, and I'm glad that he's the illustrator for the series, so I'll say this quietly: Do his illustrations ever match the descriptions?

This book breaks every single taboo of the series, yet at the same time seems a callback to older books. The 'Olaf disguises himself to fool the new guardians' formula hasn't really been used since TVV, and here it doesn't work at all, for the first time ever.

Good point. The previous books, or rather the latter half of the series, were/was somewhat less formulaic. Now Olaf's attempt to reaffirm the formula fail miserably. What does that say? I think primarly it shows some respect for the raeders. But... no. I've forgotten something important. For the second time. I've said this before.

Like Katie Price.

Pop culture references? In my re-read?!

[cwm]

I sold my copy to help pay for my college textbooks a while back, but I think it goes from the top of page 3 ("to retrieve the onion from the water") to the bottom of page 4 ("Their companion's name was Count Olaf...")

Oh there's two hours until EastEnders is on, why not read some more.

Chapter Seven
Kit's welfare not being the Baudelaires' immediate concern, but rather whether or not she met up with the Quagmires, seems... slightly insensitive.

I seem to recall some people say that this is one of the few places, if not the only place, in the series where Count Olaf shows the Baudelaires some respect. I don't see it, myself.

Olaf seems to assume he'll get off the island before he can be infected when he outlines his plan. Clutching at straws, much?

Chapter Eight
"The Baudelaires thought, as they did every time they saw the sky grow dark, of their parents" - I seem to recall this being consistent with a detail of an early book, something about remembering their parents...? It's probably insignificant...

"Dewey... was lying dead..." Was this the first outright statement that Dewey was dead in the series? There was that 'Dewey's not dead' rumour doing the rounds, but I don't recall if it was explicitly stated before now.

We never learn about the submarine attack. What attacked it? Is she getting confused with the SSHAMH crashing into it? Was it attacked by eagles? I don't imagine they'd do much damage to even a submarine in as bad shape as the Queequeg.

"Just had turkish coffee" - Again, Kit could be confused, but this was the day before she met the Baudelaires, so mid-TGG. This suggests that it's only been a few days since that.

Erewhon seems to agree that the island has plenty of secrets - the islanders perhaps already have an inkling of the truth?

Chapter Nine
Quick round-up of the series so far, recalling an event from every book and some more general stuff too. You kind of get the feeling that the series is coming full circle, further boosted by Dante's theory that the cycle is about to begin again from the TBL last letter (see re-read).

[Dante]

So, mostly a recap bit... okay, thanks cwm.

[Christmas Chief]

I think it's probably relatively easy to trace back the flame-imitating dress,

I was thinking the same thing, except how did he get out of the bird cage to retrieve it? Then again, he is Olaf.

It's strange how Handler feels it necessary to repeat the basic plot at the beginning of every book.

As it is with most books in series. Most authors give quick recaps at the beginning of their books, like Dante said, for less devoted readers.
Also: in reference to Sunny's second "unless..." (I'm sorry I didn't quote it, but I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment) Since Sunny's notations usually mean the same thing when repeated, I'd say she was again refering to pushing Olaf overboard. (You know, one less mouth to feed.)

[cwm]

I was thinking the same thing, except how did he get out of the bird cage to retrieve it? Then again, he is Olaf.

He already had it on before he went in.

[Dante]

I'm still not very inspired by The End. Maybe three years was too short a period of time to wait before rereading it. Or maybe I've already reread it too much.

---

~Chapter Four~

“It was as if the world was full of people with lives as unfortunate as that of the Baudelaires, all ending up in the very same place.” I think this is important. Islands are magnets for fictional protagonists in any case, but the people here have specifically already lived part of their lives; like the Baudelaires, their appearance on the island is something of an “ending” movement. Given the Biblical parallels, and the stagnancy of their lives, perhaps the island is a kind of “Heaven,” and the Baudelaires’ rejection of it, departing and forcing everyone else to depart, is a way of advocating a life without delusion. Putting it like that, one can even see parallels to His Dark Materials, and the portal out of the Land of the Dead through which the dead reintegrate with the universe.

Sunny seems to be at times the most defiant of the island’s customs – expressing disgust at the apple ritual, and questioning Ishmael’s judgement of them as good colonists based on their clothes. What does this suggest? Perhaps a lack of training in what is good social conduct, which is something her siblings would have had a good decade or so to perfect? Or is it some kind of message about how childhood innocence sees better through deception? (Which may be the reverse of what you might think.)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that “Call me Ish” is important. Well, in several ways. There’s not only the running joke on the opening of Moby Dick – perhaps the repetition of the gag is a comment on the length of Melville’s novel and its frequent departure from actual plot – but perhaps also the sense that he’s trying to establish an identity that’s different from the one many of his fellows conceive of? Of course, only one person in the whole novel actually calls him “Ish,” and that’s very significant.

I don’t think Omeros looks that far off Klaus’s age in the illustration, although it’s hard to tell as we don’t get too good a look at him. On the other hand, he’s shorter than Finn, a “young girl.” Incidentally, Hermes suggested that Finn might make for a good third sibling to Fernald and Fiona; I don’t think they need a sibling, but Finn has the looks in the chapter illustration, sporting dark hair and glasses.

“…a pregnant woman named Kit Snicket who was in a submarine with some associates…” Much like Quigley being in the self-sustaining hot air mobile home, this is something that the Baudelaires don’t, or shouldn’t, know – but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Handler to have slipped that into a recap. Still, it’s knowledge that the Baudelaires can’t have obtained – the only person she might predictably be occupying a submarine with is Widdershins, since Phil has been forgotten and Fiona and Fernald had their own submarine.

“…but they had never been tempted to solve these mysteries with a supernatural explanation like magic.” I’m pretty sure they at least considered it during TCC.

“…and there is a whole generation of islanders who have never lived anywhere else.” Is that so? Friday wouldn’t have, and Finn doesn’t seem to have off-island backstory, but I’m pretty sure the other youngsters like Omeros and Sadie Bellamy mentioned things which suggest they haven’t always lived on the island.

Also, we learn that Snicket’s earlier shipwrecking landed him on board a barge, and therefore presumably he visited the island on a separate occasion. I assume that his attempt to get shipwrecked was as part of his research on what it feels like to be shipwrecked, not an attempt to reach the island – an island which one can only reach by being shipwrecked seems a little supernatural, anyway.

[Hermes]

Sept 17, 2009 8:05:47 GMT -5 Dante said:

Quite the reverse, actually - if anything, I don't think the white-faced women are villainous enough. That is to say - well, what do we know about Monday? She was on the island at one point while Ishmael was in charge, and she was blackmailing an old man involved in a political scandal at the time she told Olaf that Ishmael was on the island. I don't get the impression that Monday is working as part of a pair or a team - she's identified very individually. I don't see the white-faced women being described that way. However, as I said, it could nonetheless be one of them.

Ah, OK. No, I don't think it's particularly likely that Monday is one of the WFW - but she may still be one of the women who sailed away with the snake (who may not be a pair particularly, just two people who chose to leave at the same time).

Sept 17, 2009 10:07:27 GMT -5 cwm said:

Chapter OneThe weird thing about The End is that Olaf's character seems to regress into a bumbling villain. Even with his ridiculous laugh in TGG, he's always threatening, but here his constant insistence on releasing the Medusoid Mycelium whilst he's in the vincinity - more on that later - seems intensely irritating and ridiculous. Does he just not mind at this stage if he dies or not? Is he denying the reality that all his dreams - the Baudelaire fortune, et al - are over, not accepting them until the end? I suppose this is us seeing the character stripped of every last defence, every ally, and every real hope - I'm just not sure how successful it is here.

I think I agree with the main thrust of that - but while sometimes, as in chapter 1, it does indeed reduce him to a bumbling villain, elsewhere, as in chapter 7, as Dante pointed out, it actually makes him more menacing. I think the crucial moment was in TPP when he threatened to release the mycelium and destroy everyone, including his allies; getting a fortune is no longer his main aim, though he occasionally mentions it, as if he knew it was meant to be what he was after. And near the end he seems quite happy to kill himself as well, if others die in the process.

It took me a while to realise that Lemony states he is unable to describe the horrors of a storm at sea... and then he immediately does so.

It's called praeteritio.

"After Friday abandoned him, he'd never dare approach the island" - is this really what Ishmael thinks? How well does he know Count Olaf?

Yes, this is weird. It's actually odd how long O does stay away.

Sept 17, 2009 11:34:44 GMT -5 cwm said:

Olaf seems to assume he'll get off the island before he can be infected when he outlines his plan. Clutching at straws, much?

I'm guessing he assumes he won't have to carry out the threat - Mutual Assured Destruction. Though it may also be that he's not too worried about the prosepct of dying himself.

We never learn about the submarine attack. What attacked it? Is she getting confused with the SSHAMH crashing into it? Was it attacked by eagles? I don't imagine they'd do much damage to even a submarine in as bad shape as the Queequeg.

I had supposed that 'attacked' was just short for 'crashed into by a collapsing SSHAMH'; but now you mention it, given how much Kit's story definitely leaves out (where the snake came from, how the captain was reunited with his stepchildren, what happened to the Carmelita, etc.) that she might well also be passing over an attack (by Female Finish Pirates?) as well. (She is dying by the time she tells her full story, so I don't think we can object to her skipping bits.)

"Just had turkish coffee" - Again, Kit could be confused, but this was the day before she met the Baudelaires, so mid-TGG. This suggests that it's only been a few days since that.

I think it is - though in that case it's a bit odd that the Baudelaires have lost count of the days - since Ishmael says, right at the beginning, that there's another storm coming.

Erewhon seems to agree that the island has plenty of secrets - the islanders perhaps already have an inkling of the truth?

Could well be - but she may also be thinking of secrets kept from Ishmael.

Quick round-up of the series so far, recalling an event from every book and some more general stuff too.

Really? Now I'll have to go through it again to see if I can find the references.

(Have to go now - I've been told there's a party I'm meant to be at that no one had thought to warn me of before. I may comment on a couple of other things later.)

Edit: OK, continuing.

Sept 18, 2009 6:36:36 GMT -5 Dante said:

Putting it like that, one can even see parallels to His Dark Materials, and the portal out of the Land of the Dead through which the dead reintegrate with the universe.

Interesting. There are certainly definite parallels to HDM later in the book.

I don’t think Omeros looks that far off Klaus’s age in the illustration, although it’s hard to tell as we don’t get too good a look at him. On the other hand, he’s shorter than Finn, a “young girl.”

He's also a lot shorter than Ariel, who is 16-17; and he has an 'urchin' look which I associate with a younger age.

“…and there is a whole generation of islanders who have never lived anywhere else.” Is that so? Friday wouldn’t have, and Finn doesn’t seem to have off-island backstory, but I’m pretty sure the other youngsters like Omeros and Sadie Bellamy mentioned things which suggest they haven’t always lived on the island.

Ah, bother. But where do we hear that Jonah and Sadie are youngsters? The only younger person I can remember having an off-island backstory is Ariel, who is over fifteen - I'll look out for the others, though.

I assume that his attempt to get shipwrecked was as part of his research on what it feels like to be shipwrecked, not an attempt to reach the island – an island which one can only reach by being shipwrecked seems a little supernatural, anyway.

Sort of. But I'm not sure that this is the kind of magic which the Snicket universe excludes - it's not an event for which there is no natural explanation - storms do indeed wreck ships, and it makes sense for the wrecks to be cast up on islands. It's more a narrative kind of magic - things happen in a narratively appropriate way - and there seems to be something like that at work on the island anyway, with 'everything washing up on these shores'.

[Dante]

I keep on missing people's edits, but on the other hand, I can't actually really be bothered to say much. My enthusiasm's sure depleted.

~Chapter Five~

Okay, pretty sure the foot sticking over the side of the cube is meant to have the V.F.D. insignia in its ankle, but it’s not the foreground that’s important here, it’s the background. Far back on the left- and right-hand sides are a refrigerator and a car – Olaf’s, specifically. Illustrations aren’t canon, but Helquist seems to have decided that these two items ended up washed onto the coastal shelf. This is entirely reasonable – the fridge was presumably washed down the Stricken Stream when its source shattered, and the car hasn’t been mentioned since TSS either. It had a spare tire, but perhaps we can presume Olaf either shoved it down the mountain and into the river in a fit of rage, or it got swept into the ocean when he retrieved his own submarine.

Interesting that the occupation of braeman is described as being one suited to avoiding pressure from others.

I assume that Ishmael’s suggestions for occupations for the Baudelaires were designed to keep them out of trouble.

For some reason, right up until this reread I thought that ceviche was another seaweed dish.

Note that it seems very likely the Baudelaires would have continued with their brainwashed life if it hadn’t been for the reappearance of Kit and Count Olaf. Nonetheless, Klaus at least displays the attitude of his parents in his suggestion that they could write a book of the colony’s history.

The memory of the Finance District visit, or rather Lemony’s memory of it, seems to be the only confirmation we have that the Baudelaire parents were still engaged in V.F.D. business; otherwise, one might have assumed that they had practically left the organisation, since it’s hard to picture situations in which they could do anything without their children finding out. Oh, except for the opera incident.

The same anecdote also makes V.F.D.’s actions seem like a constant struggle between both sides of the schism rather than what one might term “set-piece battles” or important incidents. It also shows, I suppose, how easy it is to disguise V.F.D.’s actions as the normal course of business, which also helps the Baudelaires’ involvement.

The Baudelaires standing on each others’ shoulders to look atop the pile of books recalls them doing exactly the same thing in TVV, only with a fountain – and the book cube has just been described as being like a fountain.

Page 111 was leaked, by the way, by someone whose copy of The End was delivered early by Amazon, although I think the photograph was too blurry to actually read the identity of the individual in question. Although it was kind of obvious from the gloves.

Daniel Handler, in pre-release interviews, repeatedly described The End as containing the first occurrence in literary history of someone using seaweed as a wig (although one dubious publication misquoted him as saying “weapon” rather than “wig”).

[Hermes]

Sept 19, 2009 3:19:55 GMT -5 Dante said:

Illustrations aren’t canon, but Helquist seems to have decided that these two items ended up washed onto the coastal shelf. This is entirely reasonable – the fridge was presumably washed down the Stricken Stream when its source shattered, and the car hasn’t been mentioned since TSS either.

I wonder if the fridge still contains the pickle which Lemony left there. Perhaps in the end he was after all able to retrieve it.

Chapter 9.

I think Dante commented a while ago on the picture of the digging ballerinas, during a discussion of how irrelevant some of Helquist's drawings are. But I wonder if by this point Handler knew that Helquist was likely to do this sort of thing, and was inserting some weird images in order to stimulate him.

Ah, the items in the arboretum. This is one of the great 'more things in heaven and earth' passages. But a few things stand out:
- a triangular picture frame; an in item from TEE.
- a brass lamp in the shape of a fish; from the Prufrock Prep library in TAA.
- the skeleton of an elephant; presumably 'an elephant that they have never seen', from the poem by John Godfrey Saxe.
- a glittering green mask that one might wear as part of a dragonfly costume; from the masked ball, referred to in TAA and TUA (though the Baudelaires won't know about that. Or perhaps they will - their mother was at it.)
- a wooden rocking horse; I cannot make this one out at all. Can anyone help?
- a piece of rubber that looked like a fanbelt; from TCC, though it's carefully left uncertain whether this was the same fanbelt.
- a plastic replica of a clown; from the Anxious Clown.
- a broken telegraph pole; related to the cutting of the wires in TUA.
- a carving of a black bird; quidditch.com suggests this is the Maltese Falcon, but it seems rather unclear to me.
- a gem that shone like an Indian moon; almost certainly Wilkie Collins' Moonstone, which was indeed Indian.

'What is the root of the problem?' 'Ink'. I did wonder if this had a double meaning, but the thought that ink is the root of the problem seems very un--Snicketlike.

'prosciutto, an Italian ham that the Baudelaires had once enjoyed at a Sicilian picnic' - so if they are Jewish, they certainly aren't observant.

'see page 667'. Hmm. Of course, this site had been running for some time by the time this was written.

'Inky has learned to lasso sheep.' This confirms Klaus's supsicion that the snake has been here before. Of course, the name 'Inky' raises puzzles, which we have discussed before; one would naturally suppose it to be short for 'Incredibly Deadly Viper', but we know that Monty gave it that name, and it seems it was quite new to him at the time of TRR. So perhaps, as I think Dante suggested, it was just called Inky because of its black skin; and then this could have suggested 'Incredibly Deadly Viper' to Monty when he needed to give it a formal name.

'addressed to Olivia Caliban'. This would seem to make Olivia a relation of Friday's father - unless her mother has resumed her maiden name, which is unlikely, given that she is using 'Mrs', but not impossible. The names 'Miranda' and 'Olivia' do go together better than 'Olivia' and 'Thursday' - but that proves little; they might be named after different relations, or whatever. I think some people connected Miranda and Olivia with the M and O in the family tree; I'm sure O was originally meant to be Olaf, but I think it's a possible retcon.

Note that at this point we are not told the title of the Baudelaire parents' record, although our attention is drawn to it.