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Post by Christmas Chief on Oct 8, 2009 8:54:41 GMT -5
Alright, I just finished Realtors in a Cave. Keep up the great work!
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Post by Hermes on Oct 8, 2009 14:35:46 GMT -5
Again, I don't remember, but possibly it was to link Esmé to Dr. Orwell as they're quite similar characters - that is, one can almost see Dr. Orwell being a kind of proto-Esmé, right? Not sure I see it, myself. Yes, that's the idea I prefer. Unfortunately it gives us no clue to their surname, though. Well, I could imagine Mr Poe being an informant of Dewey's - perhaps without fully grasping his significance. My own plan is for something more specific, though. Yes, come to think of it even TPP itself supports a 'young Olaf' view, since it has him knowing Beatrice when he was seven. Um. Perhaps we can say he killed some cousins of the Denouements, or something? Ah, OK. I don't really think of them as members of the troupe - they are technicians rather than actors, so we don't need to suppose they are involved in Olaf's schemes. The wart-faced man clearly is, but I see him as something like Dr Orwell, an independent villain who's collaborating with him. Quagmire Story - very Snickety. which makes sense, given it was written to show how the life of the Quagmires would parallel that of the Baudelaires. Lotsaluck Story - oh, I like this! At first I thought it was going to be just a reconstruction of the work of Loney M. Setnick, but, as we went along, it became clear that it wasn't. (Though I'm sure Ms. Setnick was sometimes tempted to write something like this.)
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Post by Dante on Oct 8, 2009 15:08:17 GMT -5
Emma, sherryann, glad you're enjoying it. IE just killed my post, time to remake it from the start! *sigh* Not sure I see it, myself. Without attempting to reconstruct the creative process behind a fic I no longer remember even writing, I would say now that Dr. Orwell bears a resemblance to Esmé in that she's respectable, professional, female, almost a guardian figure, and one of the few allies of Olaf - especially early on - who he treats as a real equal. But they're also very different characters. Which I imagine is why I threw Orwell in there, although of course Orwell may not be her real name. You-know-who seems to me to be one informing Poe rather than the reverse - but, it's not what I wrote, the series never answers it, it's what you're preparing to write. Good luck. I think that's probably what you have to do, yes. Or kid Olaf was brought along to hold the matches, but I think as presented in that one early letter of TBL he's merely a bit of a brat, rather than actually evil. They make up the numbers for the ten members of Olaf's troupe mentioned earlier in TBB - not that that figure is unproblematic - but you're right, they don't escape at the end. I just like the idea of giving more character to forgotten characters. I remember Handler saying once that he enjoyed bringing back incredibly obscure characters - hence the return of Bruce and Phil, and arguably the quotation of the three short men line in The End itself. Even though the Squalors' behaviour in TEE when talking about the Quagmires indicates that the fic couldn't have actually happened, I tried hard to make it plausible. I think it's an acceptable version of what could have happened. That the fic belied your expectations I consider to be the greatest compliment.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 10, 2009 11:29:24 GMT -5
I would say now that Dr. Orwell bears a resemblance to Esmé in that she's respectable, professional, female, almost a guardian figure, and one of the few allies of Olaf - especially early on - who he treats as a real equal. But they're also very different characters. Ah, that makes sense - I was looking at it from a character point of view. Olaf on Briny Beach - very interesting glimpse of Olaf's life, showing us another side to his character. Nice parallels with the Baudelaires (though if I read it rightly, this was not the beginning of his villainous career, as you say he had already committed several murders). I especially liked 'its unfathomable fathoms', and of course the reference to the Denouement twins.
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Post by Dante on Oct 10, 2009 12:55:26 GMT -5
Yes, I think this was just a depiction of the event which motivated Olaf's interest in the Baudelaires. And I seriously went through a "strong parallels" phase, didn't I?
On which note, a certain thread in the HP section has made me realise there's one fic I forgot to include here. Perhaps another time.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 13, 2009 6:37:35 GMT -5
Bitter Failures.
This engages my interest as a detective.
Clearly you are (for the purposes of this story) accepting the family tree, and also the speculation that Ishmael's pupil was Josephine's mother in law. I take it Donna later married Aeneas, and became the mother of G, H and I. As for Falco - that name has possibilities for anagrams. (Do you see Falco as a girl or a boy, though? It sounds like a male name to me, but I'd always supposed F was a woman, as her children aren't called Snicket. Apparently.)
I was going to raise a question about the Snickets' parents being drowned, since I had an idea Lemony knew his grandmother, but I then realised you had said 'supposedly'. (Or I suppose it might be his maternal grandmother; though given the way the Snickets seem to have been one of the major families of VFD, I rather doubt it.)
It's interesting to see the earlier history of some of the families mentioned in the series - Smithjones, Orwell (apparently the same as Smithjones), Bellamy. Not sure of the origin of 'Ella Lorenz', though.
Fountain Fan Place - nice.
Oh - and the poisonous plant goes to the Royal Gardens, linking up with BBRE! That really is clever. (Now I wonder if Handler had it in mind - though if he had I suspect it was only as a parallel.)
And the antidote was in the sugar bowl! Ha! (But why does Ishamel then resolve to take his tea without additions? Wouldn't he want to take the antidote?)
Does the hijacked train refer to anything in particular, or is it just one of the further stories contained in the large and mysterious world?
Anyway I would certainly be interested in seeing more of this.
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Post by Dante on Oct 13, 2009 10:49:57 GMT -5
Thanks again for commenting; I'm really curious about what others think of all this. As for Falco - that name has possibilities for anagrams. (Do you see Falco as a girl or a boy, though? It sounds like a male name to me, but I'd always supposed F was a woman, as her children aren't called Snicket. Apparently.) Falco was, I think, male, and would indeed have been picked for its anagram possibilities. Where the Snicket surname went is as big a mystery as where the countship came from, I guess; I think my rationale in the planning process was that since these are already issues in canon, then since they weren't the main focus of my fic then I didn't need to address them. It's Donna's story, not Falco's. Possibly, as the youngest sibling, he might have adopted his new parents' surname while Elwyn wouldn't (all three Snickets are in the same class, but Prufrock had some apparent age inconsistencies as well). I don't remember Lemony knowing his grandmother, although I do recall him knowing his grandfather. Adoptive grandfather, perhaps? Or, as you say, maternal. The Snickets being an important family in V.F.D. could've been established in the D.E.F. generation, since they'd be the parents of so many important characters. But I think this is just something I overlooked. Snicket mentions his friend Dr. Lorenz in TWW. Evidently Lemony's Lorenz is a different one - and, looking at the quote, it seems that her gender isn't specified, although I'd assumed she was female - since she explains the principles of the convergence and refraction of light, while Ella Lorenz seems to be some kind of biologist. "Ella" may have been chosen because it sounds a bit like Bela, Bellamy, L... I'm not sure. I was very pleased with that one. Because it allows for so many parallels. I don't think so, since the link between poison and plant is kind of indirect... I think the poisonous plant was (very, very vaguely) implied to be a flower of some kind, too, but houseplants are more leafy - and also the houseplant mentioned in The End withered. It's a liberty I took, which is allowed because it's fanfiction and hey making these links is what we're meant to do, but if it appeared in canon I think it'd be a bit weaker. Yeah, that is a bit of a mess. I don't think I thought that through very well. I think it was part of some roundabout explanation involving him always wanting to know exactly what's in his tea. To be fair on my past self, I think this problem is also implied in canon - the antidote being in the sugar bowl is implied there as well, but it's this same circumstance which led Ishmael to prefer tea that's as bitter as wormwood rather than tea with sweet sweet antidote in it. I'm looking at it, and I think it was either a random throwaway thing, as sometimes the books contain, or it was a nod to the movie, which contained menacing trains seen nowhere in the books. Hey, that just gave me an idea for a story in which the Baudelaires' new guardian works on a train and they have to assist him as porters, except it would basically be TPP crossed over with Murder on the Orient Express. Actually, that'd be awesome. Ho ho ho, that'll never ever happen.* *Unless Handler writes it.****Which he won't.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Oct 13, 2009 12:19:45 GMT -5
More Realtors (chapter four): The opening paragraph covering the description of Curdled Cave flowed nicely and was very thorough. Congratulations on painting a clear picture for the reader's imagination. This is undoubtedly one of the cleverest ideas I've ever read about in ASoUE fanfic, or any fanfic for that matter. Bravo, Dante. Considering all of the drama currently going on, this provided some excellent comic relief. It really puts the emphasis on the personalities of Fiona and Captain Widdershins, and is totally something I can see having happened in the canon. In short, wonderful chapter yet again.
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Post by Dante on Oct 13, 2009 13:57:13 GMT -5
I'm glad you're enjoying it. The characters in RitC are all so vibrant in the canon, and I tried hard to make sure that was expressed - that they were true to themselves. And anyone should be pleased when they can come up with a V.F.D. process in which the "V." doesn't stand for "Very."
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Post by Hermes on Oct 13, 2009 14:03:01 GMT -5
Where the Snicket surname went is as big a mystery as where the countship came from, I guess; I think my rationale in the planning process was that since these are already issues in canon, then since they weren't the main focus of my fic then I didn't need to address them. It doesn't seem to me to be that much of a puzzle if F is female; she married a count, so losing the Snicket name. (By a count I just mean someone who had inherited that title; I doubt that counts are an active part of the system in Snicketland, but someone from an old European noble family might still call himself that.) I'm glad you think so. Well, the antidote might be in the sugar bowl without being in the sugar - i.e. the bowl might contain antidote instead of sugar. Then the tea will be bitter, either because it contains a bitter antidote, or just because there is no sugar available. Edit: yes, grandfather. Sorry.
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Post by Dante on Oct 16, 2009 8:54:46 GMT -5
It doesn't seem to me to be that much of a puzzle if F is female; she married a count, so losing the Snicket name. (By a count I just mean someone who had inherited that title; I doubt that counts are an active part of the system in Snicketland, but someone from an old European noble family might still call himself that.) Yeah, it would be easy if F. was female, but then I wouldn't be able to use the name "Falco," which as far as I'm aware is masculine. Its appeal to me was that it was a real name (insofar as anything is a real name), whereas if F. was female I'd have to make one up. I would debate, however, the notion that it's not actually a mystery in the series; that you've had to come up with an answer shows that it's an unanswered question, right? It's just not one of any importance (and, depending on your view of the Family Tree, might not even be a question that exists at all). Incidentally, however, I learnt a little while ago that it's not actually illegal to pretend you have a title. So Count Olaf could quite literally have invented his own countship; that possibility exists. But that just replaces one question with another. I don't think it really matters, though - unless Handler's new books are a prequel series, and that'd be a nightmare. Isn't there enough debate about this continuity without stirring it up even more?! I'm not going to go on at length here, but I don't think debating the taste of the antidote or reasons for which tea might be bitter actually gets us anywhere.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 16, 2009 14:53:37 GMT -5
Into the Great Unknown
Very different style in this one, but I liked it - I guess it's appropriate to the subject-matter. I particularly liked the voice of Captain Widdershins (aye!) and of Phil. And the couplets. Also the way one of the Quagmires says 'that was me'. but we don't know which.
The bit about Fernald's (original) father gives room for much speculation.
I guess to continue the story beyond this point would cause problems with the word 'unknown'.
(My father once received a letter addressed to The Unknown.)
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Post by Dante on Oct 16, 2009 15:34:15 GMT -5
Very different style in this one, but I liked it - I guess it's appropriate to the subject-matter. Yeah, I'm fairly sure this one was written for the style - "for the art," if you like. One has to make quite a bit of effort to identify a speaker, in reading and in the writing, based on their actual character and context. Mostly context, because I'm pretty bad at character; I'm more interested in plot. I'm not entirely confident I can identify all the speakers myself in every instance, after so long, but I do think every quotation belongs to someone. Except the incident you mention below. The couplets are frankly awful, but I suppose "I'd rather eat a bowl of vampire bats" is hardly great literature. Neither do I. Wouldn't be true to the original. I was glad to be able to include that. TGG's backstory fascinates me (part of the reason that Realtors in the Cave got written). If ever Handler did write a prequel book, I'd want it to address so much in TGG, which feels like it has some answers that we don't know... I don't know here, either, but I feel that Fernald would be angry, even knowing so little about his real father. That's the great irony of the tale. It's an extension of something that already could not be extended, and cannot, in itself, be extended. To write it is to take some liberties with the Great Unknown in any case, and yet it ends just as ambiguously. How curious.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 16, 2009 16:44:28 GMT -5
The couplets are frankly awful, but I suppose "I'd rather eat a bowl of vampire bats" is hardly great literature. They capture Isadora's style, which is the important thing here.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Oct 16, 2009 20:26:50 GMT -5
Chapter five of Realtors in a Cave.
I really liked this, and the way it provided the reader with a mirror into the future of the Josephine we meet in the canon. I always love reading about characters' pasts, and it's interesting to see how different Josephine was when she was still with Ike.
Ah, Quisling, you traitor! No, seriously, I was expecting this - I just love the way you wrote it, particularly. If there was such a thing as The List of the Greatest Quotes in Fanfiction History, what Quisling said about housing deals would be at the very top.
Jonah Widdershins! Was there a J.W. mentioned in LSTUA? Either way, this is yet another example of your creative genious.
I suppose I wasn't completely shocked by Gorgon's revelation, considering where her name comes from. One of the things I like best about your writing is your ability to create and portray villains so well.
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