Beatrice: Am I alone in these feelings?

[colette]

I was thinking about Beatrice Baudelaire. Of course, I respect her and I must respect her because Sunny, whom I really love, is her daughter. But in general Beatrice's personality is really unpleasant to me. I dislike that story about sugar bowl and that story about poison darts. Beatrice is not very good person I think. What do you think? Am I alone in such opinion?

[Dante]

I don't think it's entirely unfair to read Beatrice's character this way, but you have to bear in mind that we know nothing about the circumstances of the poison dart attack or the theft of the sugar bowl. It does seem that she might've been a bit too trusting of The Daily Punctilio's reports, though.

[Hermes]

She was apparently helped by Lemony in stealing the sugar bowl, and by Bertrand in the poison darts incident.

From what Lemony says about the sugar bowl, there was a good reason to do it, but he is still not sure it was right.

I have always suspected that the posion darts incident may have been accidental, as the deaths in La Forza de Destino and in TPP itself were. If not, again I suppose it was necessary for some reason.

I think it's an illustration of the way being a volunteer sometimes makes it necessary to do terrible things After all, Sunny burnt down a hotel - though that may have been necessary to prevent the deaths of even more people by Medusoid Mycelium.

[Leanora Crowe]

I don't think I've ever met anyone before who didn't like Beatrice. That's a really interesting thought.

I, too, have a...different way of viewing the above mentioned characters. I see Beatrice as rather innocent and even a bit naïve. Definitely too trusting. I think Bertrand is the bad one, and I think he may have even told Beatrice that if she married Lemony, he would kill Lemony. He probably would have come up with a noble-sounding reason, too. I think that's why she chose not to marry Lemony: to keep him safe. So she married Bertrand. They seem to have ended up happy enough, but I still think Bertrand is a creeper. I think he influenced her to help him with the poison darts thing.

So yeah. Most of that is speculation, but that's the way I see it.

[colette]

Probably but I feel something sinister and unpleasant in Beatrice's personality. Esme, for example, is evil but she has something attractive, while Beatrice is very, very unpleasant for me.

[thedoctororwell]

Well, if we trust TBB:RE, Charles Baudelaire's poem "La Béatrice" is the inspiration for the character. And, well, that Béatrice is not exactly Dante's reinterpretation of Eurydice (a genuinely nice girl who had bad luck). In this poem, she transforms into a villain by sympathising with a hord of demons.

So I've kind of always suspected Béatrice was not as charming as Lemony pictured her : he was in love with her, he's hardly an objective witness. He loved her beside her faults of character.

In my mind Béatrice was somebody with a very good heart, but only for the ones close to her, and she chose very coldly who was supposed to matter and who wasn't. She would certainly have given her life for her children, but helping Lemony would have involved letting go of several advantages, facing some trials, and she wasn't altruistic enough. So she cast him out of her life at the moment he needed her the most - she loved him but apparently that wasn't enough to conquer her selfishness. In a way she had a lot in common with Jérôme in the past. She then chose Bertrand because being with him wasn't as troublesome. Much later in her life she regretted deeply her decision not to help Lemony but it was too late to do anything since she was happily married to Bertrand.

The idea she was a villain in the purest sense of the term is not that far-fetched either. There's something... Off about the way "good" VFD parents lived their lives. How did they avoid getting their house burnt down all these years, if they fought the fire-starters since their adolescence ? What persons in their right mind write a will so complex it puts their children in the hands of their greatest enemy ? Maybe they were "protected" in exchange for something : money ? information about the "noble" VFDers ? I'll guess we'll never know, but it's kind of telling that the actually noble members of VFD we've really met lived quite different lives. The Captain was relatively safe because he lived in his sub ; Lemony is on the run ; Kit isn't but she seems never to stay in the same place for a very long time. Monty seemed to have a quiet life but wasn't very active in VFD : he didn't recognize Olaf, he didn't know the Sebald code... Plus he was always off abroad. As for Josephine she probably left VFD for good after Ike's death so the fire-starting side knew she wasn't a threat.

[Dante]

The Quagmires were also only targeted quite recently, and I think it's a reasonable assumption that they were also members of V.F.D., although I don't think that's something we ever really get any hints about other than their house ebeing burnt down. Maybe something changed only recently that led to private individuals being targeted? I can't help but suspect that some of the factors which make the Baudelaire parents suspicious are just accidents of plot, of the late introduction of V.F.D. to the series. I do think Beatrice not being perfect is a fair interpretation, though. TGG Chapter Seven - "It is often difficult to admit that someone you love is not perfect, or to consider aspects of a person that are less than admirable."

[colette]

Yeah, Beatrice and Berthrand are not perfect but neither am I.

[R.]

Apr 1, 2011 12:16:00 GMT -5 colette said:

Probably but I feel something sinister and unpleasant in Beatrice's personality. Esme, for example, is evil but she has something attractive, while Beatrice is very, very unpleasant for me.

I couldn’t have put it better myself. I have no idea why I am so repulsed by Beatrice. I think it’s because we don’t get much information about her and her personality, and only see her cruel actions.

[Dante]

To be honest, Beatrice is barely a character. She's just a collection of a few snippets of information. Personally, I see nothing to either like or dislike because there is nothing to like or dislike.

[tricky]

I agree with Dante, she isn't given enough airtime (well pagetime) in order to be considered a viable character. I think that even Olaf's disguises are given more backstory and emotional depth than her.

[R.]

Don’t say that to Optimism is my Phil-osophy! I think he is nearly as obsessed with Beatrice as Lemony Snicket himself!

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

My obsession with Beatrice is more about the ministry, not the person. I wouldn't marry her if I were single. Lemony fell in love with her as a childhood friend. If anyone has read my Fanfic "Untie My Silence Knot" understand how I imagine her mind at the moment. In my imagination she is a complex character. I like that character that I created.

[Amber Rivers]

Apr 1, 2011 5:40:43 GMT -5 colette said:

I was thinking about Beatrice Baudelaire. Of course, I respect her and I must respect her because Sunny, whom I really love, is her daughter. But in general Beatrice's personality is really unpleasant to me. I dislike that story about sugar bowl and that story about poison darts. Beatrice is not very good person I think. What do you think? Am I alone in such opinion?

All the characters in the series are morally ambiguous and to say that Beatrice is evil is kind of unfair to her character. There is a schism going on and the VFD that they know as a generation and they were acting according to orders (of which we don't know, probably higher ups?). In any case, I'd like to believe that these problematic adults are a result of being indoctrinated with a weird credo at such a young age. 

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

Mar 12, 2021 7:07:18 GMT -5 Amber Rivers said:

Apr 1, 2011 5:40:43 GMT -5 colette said:

I was thinking about Beatrice Baudelaire. Of course, I respect her and I must respect her because Sunny, whom I really love, is her daughter. But in general Beatrice's personality is really unpleasant to me. I dislike that story about sugar bowl and that story about poison darts. Beatrice is not very good person I think. What do you think? Am I alone in such opinion?

All the characters in the series are morally ambiguous and to say that Beatrice is evil is kind of unfair to her character. There is a schism going on and the VFD that they know as a generation and they were acting according to orders (of which we don't know, probably higher ups?). In any case, I'd like to believe that these problematic adults are a result of being indoctrinated with a weird credo at such a young age. 

Please read my Fanfic Untie My Silence Knot ... I find all of this in a very cool way, I think.