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Post by csc on Aug 1, 2011 13:03:21 GMT -5
Suzanne dedicates the book to James Proimos. Does Proimos remind anyone of Primrose?
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Post by Songbird on Aug 3, 2011 7:42:47 GMT -5
A little bit I guess.
Okay we can discuss chapters 4-8 now. What does everyone think of the train ride to the capitol?
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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 3, 2011 8:10:23 GMT -5
We get some flashback on the train ride, including the origins of Katniss's name. Of note is her father's saying, "As long as you can find yourself, you'll never starve." This can be read in more than one way. Haymitch agrees meanwhile to stay sober enough to help them, which makes me wonder how he "helped" previous tributes.
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Post by csc on Aug 3, 2011 11:57:01 GMT -5
I think he didn't help the others. Anyways, how do you feel about the other tributes, the Careers? And also how do you feel about Peeta now that he has asked to be coached seperatly? That made me mad but I understand why he did it. He probably felt very insecurenabout his score after seeing Katniss' eleven.
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Post by Songbird on Aug 3, 2011 21:15:18 GMT -5
I honestly can't stand any of the careers. It's one thing to practice for an event but another to actually train to kill other humans. Granted, that's what makes the Hunger Games so controversial as well as interesting but still. I think Haymitch must have seen a lot of awful stuff when he was in the games in order to be as drunk as he is on a regular basis. Anyone have an opinion on the prep team? They're my favorite characters because they are complete opposites to everyone else so far.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 4, 2011 7:07:18 GMT -5
The prep team gives us a good taste of variety. They're not the Capitol, but they don't despise it either, which are the categories every character has seemed to have fallen into until now. The team's physical appearance is also striking - except for Cinna, of course. And as for the Careers ... looking at their elimination strategy alone ("kill everyone"), it seems logical to train to kill, because they're the only group who does so. From an ethical standpoint this is wrong, but then all defense and no offense would make for a rather slow-moving game (which is in no one's best interests).
Although it's just occurred to me the Gamemakers could drive the tributes together rather easily, were there no alliances - you could approach a lot of alternate possibilities when it comes to the Games. What are the thoughts on the coal costumes?
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Post by Hermes on Aug 4, 2011 14:24:31 GMT -5
A few things:
The Capitol people's names - all Roman - are interesting (though Effie doesn't seem to fit this pattern).
nominatissima mentioned earlier the absence of agriculture, but now we find that one of the distiicts - 11 - has agriculture as its main industry. I'm guessing that the flour used in the bread Peeta's family makes, for instance, comes from there - though poorer people have to rely on hunting and gathering.
So what is the point of Haymitch's and Cinna's strategies - making Katniss and Peeta stay together and look like friends?
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Post by csc on Aug 4, 2011 16:38:07 GMT -5
A few things: The Capitol people's names - all Roman - are interesting (though Effie doesn't seem to fit this pattern). So true! I hadn't noticed it yet: Venia, Octavia, Flavius, Cinna, Portia, Caeser, Claudius... It's interesting. I. Anyone have an opinion on the prep team? They're my favorite characters because they are complete opposites to everyone else so far. I like them too, they are so silly, it's actually funny, although sometimes annoying. I disagree with Sherry Ann though, I think they're 100% Capitol. But not the poweful people, the normal people, who live in the Capitol. At least, when Katniss ever mentions those people, I imagine them to be a lot like the prep team, only a bit less silly, because the prep team, by being in the fashion\beauty industry, are more shallow.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 4, 2011 18:25:57 GMT -5
So what is the point of Haymitch's and Cinna's strategies - making Katniss and Peeta stay together and look like friends? This puzzled me too, at the time. I think the idea is to raise publicity for District 12 to receive more sponsors, or perhaps it's an attempt to earn the Capitol's support.
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Post by csc on Aug 4, 2011 19:47:36 GMT -5
I know that we've seen very little of Rue, but how do you feel about little Rue being a tribute? I think it's very sad and it makes me want to change my previous answer, when Songbird asked if the reaping is fair. I saw an interview with Suzanne- the one she mentions Theseus and the Minotaur ws one of her inspirations- and she says that the Games are worse than killing the people from the Districts- they're killing their children. Do you agree with her?
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Post by Songbird on Aug 5, 2011 7:43:00 GMT -5
Yes I do. By killing innocent children, they are stunting their future. The whole point of the games is not to earn food for families, it's to insure that the Capitol stays in power and that no one District is better than the other. The Games are seen by the people as entertainment, by the families of the tributes as hope but also as a death sentence for at least 11 families.
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Post by Dante on Aug 5, 2011 15:37:17 GMT -5
I've been away a little, and I haven't had time to catch up on the chapters yet, so here are a few remembered ideas. Let me see...
Is the entry system fair? Well, the thing about a random system is that it treats all people as equals, but not all people are equal - that's the point demonstrated by child tributes. And you only need twenty-four per year, right? Something like, say, the prison population could easily support that, although for that you'd need a society which had prisons rather than murder and mutilation as a substitute for law enforcement. So there are alternatives, I think; there must be. If the rewards are great enough, you could probably get by on volunteers alone, especially if whole Districts enjoyed some of the fruits of their winning Tribute's labour.
The Careers are a pretty despicable lot, but they are the product of the system, of their parents and guardians and culture. Although they are individually responsible for their actions they've clearly been massively pre-conditioned over their whole lives, and it can't have been a life filled with much worth of any kind. They're just as miserable and stunted as the people in every other District.
Haymitch - a clever gambit. A poor person in a dead-end District granted unlimited opportunities for gluttony and stupor is quite likely to indulge, so I think Haymitch being a sleazy drinker is more than predictable, and yet at the same time it's also easy to see how his situation would lead him to be so traumatised that he would have to drink to forget. So there are two prongs to his character, and we'll see which is the sharper.
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Post by Songbird on Aug 8, 2011 0:53:04 GMT -5
What do you think about the District's and their industries?
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Post by Dante on Aug 8, 2011 3:22:45 GMT -5
Is there a list anywhere? They mostly seem to be pretty practical, more about resource-gathering than actually processing resources - although, looking at the Hunger Games wiki (not recommended; there are spoilers), it seems that some of the higher-numbered Districts work on non-essentials, and there are a number of Districts which we don't know the purpose of at all. Which makes one wonder why there have to be twelve - that is, why the author chose there to be twelve. Since clearly some of them and some of their Tributes are always going to be in the background and not developed particularly well. I guess maybe that's as many as can plausibly sustain a fictional nation without being too numerous to count properly for story-telling purposes (even though they effectively already are too numerous to count).
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Post by Christmas Chief on Aug 8, 2011 7:43:13 GMT -5
For convenience, I'll post a summarized version of the list here:
District 1: Luxury items for the Capitol District 2: Weaponry, trains, supplies for Peacekeepers, etc. District 3: General electronics, firearms, automobiles District 4: Fishing District 5: Unknown District 6: Unknown District 7: Lumber District 8: Textiles District 9: Unknown District 10: Livestock District 11: Agriculture District 12: Coal mining
Even though the industries we know about seem to cover the essentials, I think leaving some Districts unknown covers possible plot holes that might occur in the book. If a foreign object comes on screen, for example, we can attribute its production to one of the unknown Districts. It's interesting the districts grow less wealthy as we go down the line; it seems the closer you are to supplying the Capitol with frivolities, the better. This is strange because, for instance, were it not for Districts 10 and 11 the Capitol couldn't eat. Perhaps it's that the items from the early Districts are items the Capitol can stand to lose - but if that's the case, why treat them so well? To motivate the lesser Districts?
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