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Post by CountRicardo on Nov 11, 2011 6:36:53 GMT -5
Hey Forum,
I'm probably not the first to say this but I'm beginning to speculate over a possible theory of Sir/Charles. Not only is Charles described as Sir's "partner" (and I know it's MEANT to refer to business) but there is some ambiguity.
Also the reference to ironing shirts and cooking dinner makes them seem like a married couple. So did Snicket write this in to actually add a homosexual partnership, or was he just avoiding any sexist allegations that would have been made had Charles have been a female character?
- cr
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Post by Dante on Nov 11, 2011 8:21:10 GMT -5
Considered opinion is that... well... have you read TPP yet? “There’s nothing wrong with caring about people,” Charles said quietly. “I care about you, Sir..." ... they saw Charles and Sir, who were holding hands so as not to lose one another... We don't think Handler would have any qualms about quietly including a homosexual relationship in his children's books. There is an established thread on people's opinions of the sexuality of various characters, and I'm sure we have other threads on Sir and Charles which I can't seem to find at the moment. |
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Post by B. on Nov 11, 2011 12:13:21 GMT -5
I think it's very very vaguely hinted at (see the TPP quotes from Dante above). I bet Handler is having a quiet chuckle to himself.....
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Post by CountRicardo on Nov 11, 2011 13:06:15 GMT -5
Completely forgot about them turning up in TPP, it's been a while, sorry folks!
Thanks for pointing out that thread for me.
& yeah, I can't decide whether he was making them a couple or just giving them a Mr. Burns/Smithers (from the Simpsons) esque relationship.
- cr
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Post by Hermes on Nov 11, 2011 15:30:00 GMT -5
The most explicit thing is (SPOILER)
in TBL. 'I will love you until C realises S is not worthy of his love'.
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Post by B. on Nov 11, 2011 16:25:17 GMT -5
But were Charles and Sir in VFD?! Why are they referred to by their initals?  |
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Post by Invisible on Nov 11, 2011 19:05:23 GMT -5
I have, and always will, believe that they are in a gay relationship. I just think that children can "handle" a gay relationship in the media.
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Post by B. on Nov 12, 2011 5:01:55 GMT -5
Oh yes I believe they are "partners" too.
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Post by Dante on Nov 12, 2011 5:27:58 GMT -5
But were Charles and Sir in VFD?! Why are they referred to by their initals? Because V.F.D. members seem to habitually refer to everyone they've ever met by initial in their letters. In the same letter, Snicket refers to a violin by the initial V. It's presumably one way of attempting to protect the innocent should their letters fall into the wrong hands. At any rate, Sir and Charles's sauna conversation in TPP pretty much confirms that Charles has never personally encountered V.F.D. and Sir's only dealings with them were in lumber. |
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Post by B. on Nov 12, 2011 5:46:16 GMT -5
Ah thanks  IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! |
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Post by Hermes on Nov 12, 2011 13:27:43 GMT -5
Well, Charles was apparentl;y corresponding with Kit, which suggests some connection with VFD. I think he may be an old member, long inactive. Sir, I would agree, is not a member. When Charles says 'We never heard from that organisation again,', he may know more than he's letting on - they, as a business, indeed never heard from them again, but...
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glorious
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by glorious on Dec 5, 2014 4:43:54 GMT -5
Old thread revival but its something I think has long been missed.
Constantly being called "Sir" reminds me of "Mister" from the Color Purple. In this sense, Charles would be like Celie, repressed by a businessman and being used to toil in housework in an unbalanced husband-wife relationship, logically Charles and Sir could be a couple in the same way. "Undeserving" of love. The Penultimate Peril, shows that perhaps their relationship has moved towards something more balanced as indeed Celie and Mister's does. Let's not forget that homosexuality is a massive theme in the Color Purple to boot. Something to think about?
Though Celie's and Charles attitudes towards Mister/Sir are of course very distant. Passivity is a huge theme in the Miserable Mill and the Color Purple though... I remember even the original spine of TMM was purple but thats probably going too far... Though another similarity is Celie and Charles interest in reading but its severely quashed by Mister/Sir and the fact that both are unaware that abuse does not have to be tolerated.
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Post by Dante on Dec 5, 2014 5:34:44 GMT -5
Fascinating connection, glorious. A little light Googling reveals that Handler has probably read The Color Purple, judging from his admiration of the author's anti-censorship attitude, and also has seen and appreciated the movie of the book. |
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Dec 8, 2014 5:34:45 GMT -5
Well, I always thought Sir and Charles were gay. But that's an interesting parallel to The Color Purple.
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IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
