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Post by B. on Apr 4, 2012 13:18:11 GMT -5
If we are going to receive some elaboration on the great unknown, I'm not expecting one until the third or forth book. Although the answer may be staring us in the face from the first two books, and it's not until we look at it a different way that it becomes clear.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Apr 4, 2012 15:33:39 GMT -5
Let's see ... I agree with Antenora about the illustration referring to a pressure-reading device of some kind. Note also the white borders always left around the graph paper, possibly letting us know we're getting the whole picture, while in fact holding the true whole picture from us? The Lachrymose Theory: Indeed the clues seem to be leaning that way, but, as always, I'd hold out with the net of caution. Taking an entire setting from ASOUE seems a rather large overlap, as opposed to the small overlaps implied by interviews. On the other hand, perhaps at this time Lake Lachrymose wasn't called Lake Lachrymose at all, in which case the setting might appear original to new readers and explain all backstory (which wouldn't be backstory in this universe, of course).
Note too that "Pressure?" strikes one as a wrong question, and that the text probably isn't Sebald code - which isn't to say bells won't have some importance. There could also be a "saved by the bell" pun somewhere in there, it occurs to me.
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Post by bryan on Apr 4, 2012 19:00:06 GMT -5
I think it actually is a clock due to the fact that the tail on the bottom seems to be acting as a pendulum. I wonder if we're supposed to be able to speculate anything based on the quotes though, or if they really are just random teasers.
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Post by JTB on Apr 4, 2012 20:51:03 GMT -5
I've always considered the Stricken Stream, Lemony's "underwater" hometown, Lake Lachrymose, and Anwhistle Aquatics to be connected in some vague way. I had references and evidence of this way back when, but it's all long gone now.
Any who, the dialogue concerning depths and pressure certainly indicate a submarine will make an appearance at least in the first book (here's to hoping). Perhaps a submarine from the larger V.F.D. fleet, of which the Queequeg was also apart?
The sea creature depicted by the statuette and the measuring device (measuring time or depth I haven't concluded to speculate) is obviously an important element of ATWQ -- this is its third appearance made to us thus far: twice in the clues and once on the leaked cover itself.
It's interesting to note that all three submarines from The Grim Grotto have possibly been alluded to (if one stretches the imagination): the octopus (codename Qwerty) indicates the Carmelita, the sea creature references the Great Unknown (if it is, indeed, a submarine), and the dialogue itself may nod to the Queequeg.
Only further clues can tell.
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Post by soufflé on Apr 4, 2012 20:57:21 GMT -5
Perhaps the series will be set in an underwater VFD training school. Hmmm...
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 4, 2012 21:54:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure I want Mr Snicket to tell us what the GU is - though of course he could avoid telling us explicitly just by not using the words 'Great Unknown'. I agree, and I'd be disappointed if it was explained as that's kind of against the whole point of the concept. But I think it's inevitable, given the material we're being presented, that people will come to that conclusion, so someone may as well voice it. People may come to that conclusion, but people may also be jumping to that conclusion. Personally, I don't think LS would risk taking away the mystery of the GU and make it, oh, I don't know, some cheap monster. Because whatever it'd be revealed to be, I believe, would just lessen its impact. It's highly possible that the GU will appear in the books a couple of times, but I believe those "appearances" to be like those in TGG. Or just hints of its presence. And that's because I also don't think that the revelation of the GU will play any central role in the series. I think it'll be more like something that could be interpreted as universal fear/force of nature/or, you know, just the unknown. We'll have to read the books first to continue speculating about what exactly it should mean. But I don't expect it to be meant as anything material, really. But, of course, I reserve my right to be entirely wrong. It's hard to know what to believe - if someone had told me that TWW would turn out to be a crucial source for ATWQ's important first book I wouldn't have believed it, but there's circumstantial evidence for that as well. I think part of the reason this has started to become a certainty is that it's clear the statue isn't just an arbitrarily-chosen shape - it's part of a broader design decision that we're also seeing emerge in this delightful clock. Which means that whatever the original model is must be important. I agree about the importance of the original model and the design. But everyone seems to assume that the "underwater" aspect emerging from those mailouts means that the novel will be set in and/or around Lake Lachrymose. It's a possibility, but I, for one, am fairly convinced that the book will have nothing to do with Lake Lachrymose. Lemony Snicket said that this series will have very little to do with ASoUE except for some connections (VFD, Great Unknown, etc), and I don't think that he'll have the exact same setting in any of the upcoming books as a whole novel of ASoUE. Also, Lemony Snicket has mentioned in his bio(s) that "He grew up near the sea," which is why I think that the "underwater" aspect will be "under the sea," not "under a lake," which would be far too shallow to be using a submarine in/ for pressure measuring to be of great importance.
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Post by s on Apr 4, 2012 23:30:42 GMT -5
Totally excited to see this creature re-appear! Lots to think about, indeed.
My first instinct was to Sebald-decode the message, which sadly only lead to "The otherwise"...
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Post by Dante on Apr 5, 2012 3:22:47 GMT -5
People may come to that conclusion, but people may also be jumping to that conclusion. Personally, I don't think LS would risk taking away the mystery of the GU and make it, oh, I don't know, some cheap monster. Because whatever it'd be revealed to be, I believe, would just lessen its impact. It's highly possible that the GU will appear in the books a couple of times, but I believe those "appearances" to be like those in TGG. Or just hints of its presence. And that's because I also don't think that the revelation of the GU will play any central role in the series. I think it'll be more like something that could be interpreted as universal fear/force of nature/or, you know, just the unknown. We'll have to read the books first to continue speculating about what exactly it should mean. But I don't expect it to be meant as anything material, really. But, of course, I reserve my right to be entirely wrong. I entirely agree with you. I think it's pretty obvious that revealing the true nature of something shaped like a giant question mark and known as "the Great Unknown" would be defeating the point - and, for that matter, would raise questions about the ending of ASoUE which might then require addressing. I think hints about it are as much as we're going to get. But again, people have already drawn speculative links to the Great Unknown, and I'm willing to acknowledge those even if I disagree with them. It's also worth noting that characters can know of the Great Unknown, spreads myths about it, and even make statues or clocks of it without having the slightest idea of what it really is, so if those links do exist canonically, there are ways of executing them without jeopardising the mystery. But we could equally be well off the mark in any of our recognitions. The statue may not be a leech or a seahorse or a giant underwater question mark but simply a dragon - the clock looks a lot more like that. While I agree that I don't expect there to be strong overlap, Handler's statements have been a little bit deceptive about ATWQ. He indicated that any overlap would be slight, which I think a lot of people would have interpreted as precluding a Snicket autobiographical series; and he also mentioned that some characters from ASoUE would return but that the ones who were dead would stay dead - which is irrelevant in a prequel in which dead characters might be alive at the time. So I'm not entirely prepared to take Handler's vague pre-release statements as gospel as I think he is very much trying not to give much away. On the other hand, I think many of those old biographies were written without any thoughts of an overarching plot or Snicket's own backstory in mind, and in any case, the new series takes Snicket far from anyone he knew or trusted, so probably not near to his family's roots, then. In addition, canonically the Queequeg patrolled Lake Lachrymose, so it is deep enough to allow submarine use, in addition, as is noted in TWW itself, to being large enough for hurricanes to form. (Might be worth reminding people, though, that the Queequeg's construction was assisted by Kit Snicket, and as such if yesterday's extract takes place in a submarine, it must be a different one.) I'm not saying that WCTBATH will take place at Lake Lachrymose and I'm distrustful of any speculative links between the new and old series; however, I think everything is worth bearing in mind, especially if somebody's going to suggest it anyway. I'm going into WCTBATH prepared for no continuity links; that way I can't be disappointed, only perhaps pleasurably surprised.
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ziggy
Bewildered Beginner
Posts: 3
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Post by ziggy on Apr 11, 2012 2:28:06 GMT -5
I really doubt it's a pressure-reading device. It has two hands (one long and one short), a pendulum, and the face is divided into twelve sections like a clock. Besides the Sebald code mentioned earlier I can't see any obvious link between the picture and text. Anyway, the answer to the question "when does the bell ring?" seems to be 11 o' clock (AM or PM?). Also, i've been trying not to pick out question marks since Mr.Octopus came out but surely somebody's noticed that the pendulum is shaped a lot like a question mark.
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Post by Kensicle on Apr 11, 2012 6:31:33 GMT -5
I'm getting the feeling that there is no link between the text, question and picture in this particular teaser. They probably threw them together to puzzle us. (In that case we should concentrate more on the individual elements.)
No one's pointed that out yet, but I feel that the shape of the tail is more a stylistic representation rather than a question mark.
By the way, welcome to 667 Dark Avenue, Ziggy!
EDIT: The lightning strikes around the dragon/leech/seahorse and something about its face seem to indicate that the creature is surprised, which brings to mind the octopus. Its surprise could also be from hearing the dialogue in the teaser, as if it has just asked, "Pressure?".
Edit again: Completely disproving my point about the elements in the teaser being unrelated, you could link together the text and the question by imagining the people who are speaking the dialogue are going to go as deep as they can until they hear the bell ring. But then the picture doesn't fit in.
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