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Post by Dante on Nov 11, 2012 16:49:03 GMT -5
Well, there are bits of it you liked, then, and if you can't tell what exactly didn't sit at ease with you, then there's nothing we can do about it. I hope you'll have a look at future installments - there should be preview chapters eventually - and maybe you'll like them better. It's clear that Handler's plotted ATWQ out very carefully, so if there's one legitimate course of action we can take between books, it's speculating - doing a little detective work of our own.
And my apologise, I remembered wrong; there's another "Modify Profile" button at the bottom of your Modify Profile page, not a save button. But I hope that Foreboding Feedback is helping out.
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alexandre
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
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Post by alexandre on Nov 12, 2012 11:35:02 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything WRONG with the plot itself, it's just that comparing it to the ASOUE books (and maybe that's a mistake) it just lacks in suspense, drama, and tum tum tuuuuuum moments, in my opinion. The general feeling I'm getting is that I'm reading a fanfiction : there a good ideas, but of course, it's not going to be AS GOOD as the actual author. Characters are sometimes bland (again, this is not a view I'm trying to impose, just the way I reacted to the book) : Pip and Squew : interesting, but what about them ? We know nothing (so maybe the rest will tell) but it's like we're never going to see them again, cause they don't seem memorable - there that's one of the things that bothers me. The lack of real memorable characters (except for Qwerty and Ellington who have some flesh and bone). Every character (Maxie, the police couple and their son, the guy at the reception) ... They don't stand out, and there's not something about them that makes me interested. This was also the case in some ASOUE books, like the village of Fowl Devotees, or the crowd at the Judgement in "The Penultimate Peril" or even the Island people in The End, but that served a certain purpose, in other words, they were a mass. They say stupid things, which serves a humourous purpose, and they stand out as a mass. The Characters in this novel don't interest me, Lemony and Ellington aside.
On another level : the city of Stain'd by the Sea. The octopi being sucked of their ink, the masks everybody has to put on, the Clusterous Forest ... All these elements are interesting and intriguing ones, and yet, there's almost nothing about them, except for one or two evasive descriptions. Surely, they will be talked about in the following tomes but this is the first one, it must take the audience by the guts in order for them to continue (it is the case for many, here, and that's great, bummed it's not the case for me).
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penguinnj
Bewildered Beginner
Posts: 4
Likes: 3
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Post by penguinnj on Nov 12, 2012 12:14:30 GMT -5
p.237"I'm reminded of a book my father used to read me. A bunch of elves and things get into a huge war over a piece of jewelry that everybody wants but nobody can wear." Reference:"The Lord of the Rings" (1954/'55), by J.R.R. Tolkien An obvious reference to the famous epic high fantasy novel, the kind of which the young Lemony dislikes for "always [having] a wizard who's very powerful but not very helpful" (probably the character of Gandalf in this case). I also thought this might refer to Dumbledore. Just on my second re-read now but very happy with this book!
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Post by Hermes on Nov 12, 2012 12:34:55 GMT -5
Yes, I think it glances sideways at Dumbledore too.
I think the criticism is misplaced - there's no suggestion in the books either Gandalf or Dumbledore is omnipotent, though no doubt they look very powerful to a child/hobbit.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 13, 2012 8:18:36 GMT -5
I think the criticism is misplaced - there's no suggestion in the books either Gandalf or Dumbledore is omnipotent, though no doubt they look very powerful to a child/hobbit. Well there was this criticism of Gandalf not using those bigass eagles he summoned at the end of the third book to take Frodo and Sam back home in the first place...
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Q.R.V.
Formidable Foreman
Better paranoid than dead.
Posts: 149
Likes: 20
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Post by Q.R.V. on Nov 19, 2012 19:44:35 GMT -5
Yeah, that was in the LOTR How It Should Have Ended too. But I think the rest of the fellowship was to blame as well. After all, Gandalf tried to tell them about the eagle express just before he "died" in Moria: "Fly, you fools!"
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Post by cwm on Jan 3, 2013 19:25:25 GMT -5
Mother somehow managed to buy me the American version for Christmas - what on earth did us Brits do to deserve the UK cover? The US cover is infinitely better and not the sort of thing I'd be embarassed to be seen reading in case anyone thought I was reading something from the makers of Freddi Fish. (Blimey, that was an obscure reference.)
Only got round to starting it just now (on account of having spent the last week or so socialising with family members I rarely get to see any more and watching every single episode of Red Dwarf) - but what I've read is very promising. The writing feels very much in the spirit of ASOUE without trying to ape it.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jan 4, 2013 15:44:18 GMT -5
Great to see you've gotten a hold of the book, cwm! Interesting that you should prefer the American cover - there are quite a few who feel the Egmont version is superior. The book is written quite in the spirit of ASOUE, but the style is, I feel, notably enhanced.
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Post by Dante on Jan 5, 2013 15:12:52 GMT -5
I can't say I'd feel any more embarrassed to be seen reading the Egmont version than the LB version. Both have essentially the same elements - bright colours, goofy font, highly simplistic art style. The feeling among quite a few of us here is that the LB cover isn't even a good representation of the contents - the enormous shadowy figure looming over the town is non-literal and potentially confusing to people who aren't familiar with ASoUE, and the interior and indeed back cover art is far more detailed. I also like the fact that the Egmont cover maintains consistency with ASoUE by retaining roughly the same structure whilst also being clearly different. It makes it look more like a new book by the same author rather than something completely different, which is the effect of the LB edition, where the first thought is that it does look nothing to do with ASoUE, and a lot more childish, too. Then you have to consider the resources Egmont had to work with - only the same material as the LB edition. I think they did a fine job with what they had. The back cover they kept more or less the same and it doesn't fit the front at all, but they've corralled the front and spine elements into, like I said, a structure that's reminiscent of ASoUE, and they've highlighted one of the most iconic moments of the book in a way that LB also did on the interior papers, and the use of the repeating patterns of the octopi on the spine is very reminiscent of the curling thorns of their ASoUE spines. In addition, I prefer the green-blue colour scheme, not just for evoking the oceanic motifs of the book but also as complementary colours. I know that blue and orange are supposedly famously eye-catching but I think they clash horribly - and the fact that it's such a formulaic combination doesn't do a Snicket book any favours. It stands out in quite the wrong way. Essentially, I think we dodged a bullet with the Egmont cover, but I expect better from both for ?2 - although for Egmont, better only because they'll have better material from stateside to employ. Seth can do way better (and indeed does everywhere but the front), and the cover designer can do way better (she also worked on Twilight and Pseudonymous Bosch).
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Despair
Reptile Researcher
DESPAIR IS BACK!
Posts: 16
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Post by Despair on Jan 14, 2013 6:35:31 GMT -5
It's been nearly 10 years since I was last here, but buying and reading Hour for the first time really brought me back. Really liking this book, and I think to its advantage it doesn't necessarily become a continuity fest. The main, overall mystery of the stolen item is interesting enough to dive into Lemony's psyche while at the same time the hints and occurrences provide good foreshadowing for the hardcores. Gonna read it a second time.
As for the characters, despite her incompetence, I'm hoping that Theodora will get some form of redemption as the series progresses.. It may sound cliche but she can be a funny character at times and I'm hoping that she and Lemony have a good friendship beyond the chaperone thing. The likes of Moxie, Pip & Squeak and Qwerty & Prosper are also really colorful, and Ellington is of course a big mystery.
When does the 2nd book come out anyway? In the meantime I can read Hour again, but it would be great to have a concrete year. I check all over the Internet and there seems to be no info.
Personal theories I have as far as the rest of the books go range from other previous characters like Josephine being name-dropped, Jacques being mentioned or appearing in these stories, Beatrice showing up at a certain point, foreshadowing of Olaf, Stain'd meeting a fiery demise, and Moxie and/or her mother starting the Daily Punctilio. Continuity heavy to be sure, but I'm pretty sure that the third or fourth book will get into this as it wraps up.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Jan 14, 2013 7:23:15 GMT -5
Wow. That must be the longest abscence, then return, in the history of 667! Right?
Some great ideas here, and moxie starting up the Daily Punctilio is a great idea!
Sorry.
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Post by Charlie on Jan 14, 2013 7:59:18 GMT -5
Yeah, nobody has thought of that one yet. The only Moxie newspapery suggestion has been relating her to Duncan right? Maybe I'm wrong
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Post by Dante on Jan 14, 2013 8:25:37 GMT -5
When does the 2nd book come out anyway? In the meantime I can read Hour again, but it would be great to have a concrete year. I check all over the Internet and there seems to be no info. That's because there isn't any information. But around October this year seems like a good bet. Handler's stated that the plan is for the books to be out yearly, and about a year between books was what we had for the annual ASoUE volumes. We might get more information in February-March, which is when we first started getting information last year about ?1. Good set of continuity theories. I agree that other familiar characters will continue to be name-dropped, and given that Kit's important, I'd be very surprised if Jacques never was - Jacques never got much time to shine in ASoUE, so it would be nice if he got a bit more time to be himself, and also it would make his death retroactively more painful for us readers. Beatrice, ditto - where she is in all this is the question everyone who's read ASoUE is asking, and even if this is a self-contained story that doesn't involve her much, I'd be very surprised if she was ignored entirely. Aside from Beatrice, Olaf is the next most necessary character to get at least some reference. Maybe we could say that Beatrice is the most expected character, but Olaf is the most desired character? Not that Handler should be obeying everyone's expectations or desires, but it'd be odd if they were totally passed over. Stain'd meeting a fiery demise - I think that the crime of the last book might well be arson. As for Moxie's mother, it's suggested that she was invited to join an existing newspaper, and that might well be the Punctilio. Moxie starting up that particular paper would not exactly be a great triumph for her character arc.
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Post by Charlie on Jan 14, 2013 8:29:36 GMT -5
It was originally a noble newspaper though, was it not?
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Despair
Reptile Researcher
DESPAIR IS BACK!
Posts: 16
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Post by Despair on Jan 14, 2013 9:22:47 GMT -5
If they really want to pile on the continuity, they could make Moxie related to the Quagmires and have her originally start the Punctilio as the honorable newspaper. Of course then Moxie would end up being offed. --------------------------------- From what I gather, ATWQ has a pretty mixed reception. But I think a lot of the disconnect between ATWQ and ASOUE is how the story presented in Hour is seemingly isolated and not part of a bigger picture. Of course, that could change later on, like how the repetitive pattern of the first 7 books of ASOUE had a lot of unknown depth to them.
The expectations I feel seem to be the ever-classic prequel curse. You know, setting up stuff, dropping hints and foreshadowing, etc. While there was a good amount, I think the discontent seems to be towards a lack of ASOUE drops.
Again, I'm pretty sure as the books progress, more hints will come rather than the very subtle hints and the entirety of Chapter 13 shown in Hour.
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