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Post by Dante on Dec 9, 2012 12:46:17 GMT -5
The Quagmires' parents could've been assassinated by another villain who only wanted rid of them and had no interest whatsoever in the children or stealing fortunes. And it was an assassination; TSS confirms that the Quagmire fire was arson.
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Post by Anka on Dec 9, 2012 13:12:29 GMT -5
TSS confirms that the Quagmire fire was arson. Sometimes I wonder if you have all that information in your head. If you have, you must have a very big head. Though I'm disappointed that you don't know the page.  |
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Post by Dante on Dec 9, 2012 14:34:19 GMT -5
I don't in this instance, but for quite a lot of the books I could pin down the chapter on memory alone.
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Post by Anka on Dec 9, 2012 15:10:19 GMT -5
Wow! How many times have you read them?
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Post by Dante on Dec 9, 2012 16:51:12 GMT -5
Enough that you can see why another reread didn't really appeal. They don't surprise me any more. They're still very good, but I literally know everything that's going to happen.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Dec 9, 2012 18:19:51 GMT -5
It would have been Chapter Eight, I believe. We have for this until ... the thirteenth? Yes, that should be enough time. Edit: --Chapter Three-- The Baudialres seem to defnitly have had a previous education. Although the gaurdians havent dent them to any school, which doesn’t matter. But I think Josiephen would have. A grammar school, perhaps? He could be dead, or also not actually their uncle but just called that by the family for ease, as is sometimes the case with, for instance, close family friends. Or possibly the uncle simply refused them. It seems a number of the Baudelaire relatives, like the boarding schools Nero mentions, are unwilling to take in three orphans who attract trouble wherever they go. (Although there might be problems with this - I haven't gotten past Chapter Two yet.) ~Chapter One~ The story quite directly establishes its heroes and villains; this is in contrast to the later books, where the lines are blurred. I wonder if this was a conscious choice as the series deviates from its episodic formula? “But that is how the story goes” – a callback to TBB. The disorder of the school is prefaced by the children running amuck in the lawn. If this is the chaos that ensues when the gym teacher leaves, whatever does Prufrock do without Nero, Remora, and Bass? “His older sister found a hand on her shoulder comforting – as long as the hand was attached to an arm, of course.” Of course. “Sunny was a baby and only a little bit larger than a loaf of bread.” Actually, Sunny’s size is likened to food quite often. Eggplant and casserole are the immediate examples that come to mind. Oh, and the bag of flour. Foreshadowing her role as a resourceful chef, perhaps? “There is an advanced computer system which will keep Count Olaf away from you.” Apparently a joke on today’s reliance on technology, but also another element that gives the series a timeless feel. “After all, a school as advanced as Prufrock Prep wouldn’t allow people to simply run around loose.” Mr. Poe’s incompetence is very prominent in this chapter. He completely misinterprets basic human behaviors and ignores the irony in everything he says, more so than in earlier books, I think. TAA presents an interesting take on the motto “Memento Mori.” The phrase is used sometimes in inspirational miscellany, as a reminder to make the best of one’s life. I’ve even seen it translated as “Remember you live.” ~Chapter Two~ You’re right, Mister M, it’s strange there is no fire. Possibly there is a metaphorical fire in that Nero plays while his listening students suffer – and don’t the Baudelaires escape the concert to Count Olaf using an Emergency Fire Exit? “Out of the frying pan, into the fire,” as it were? |
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Dec 10, 2012 0:49:58 GMT -5
Enough that you can see why another reread didn't really appeal. They don't surprise me any more. They're still very good, but I literally know everything that's going to happen. You're awesome, Dante! |
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Post by MisterM on Dec 10, 2012 3:28:04 GMT -5
I wonder if Nero was the person in the orchestra the Baudelaire's parents had listened to Although not the intended affect, it is strange that no one has picked up on this.
I wouldn't walk towards a person who had called me a cakesniffer. - I dont think the book specifies that they walked towards carmelita, but just 'through' the cafeteria.
Count Olaf doesn't know who the Quagmires are - I dotn want to get into the whole olaf/Quagmrie realtion thing. Its to complex at the moment. Maybe when we reach TSS.
but for quite a lot of the books I could pin down the chapter on memory alone. - I Wish I ahd your brain. Up iutil alst year, I didn't know the books that well at all. The Only book I can do that with is TSS. I had the tape fo that, and I used to listen to it to help me get to sleep for several eyars, so I know it practically word for word..
We have for this until ... the thirteenth? - Im so thankful that we moved the dates. Otherwise I would not have ahd any time to read Book 5. I Will be reading the rest of the book on tuesday, so probably no more notes from me until then.
“But that is how the story goes” – a callback to TBB. - This is something handler could have used more.
whatever does Prufrock do without Nero, Remora, and Bass? - Better?
You’re right, Mister M, - Obviously
Nero plays while his listening students suffer - Ho, ho thats good.
You're awesome, Dante! - Yes he is!
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Post by Dante on Dec 10, 2012 3:43:55 GMT -5
“His older sister found a hand on her shoulder comforting – as long as the hand was attached to an arm, of course.” Of course. This feels a bit like a reference to the gothic novels that ASoUE was initially based on, but for that reason it feels out of place, as ASoUE doesn't really have anything like that - disembodied hands falling on people's shoulders, and skeletons and things like that. |
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Dec 10, 2012 3:56:00 GMT -5
“His older sister found a hand on her shoulder comforting – as long as the hand was attached to an arm, of course.” Of course. This feels a bit like a reference to the gothic novels that ASoUE was initially based on, but for that reason it feels out of place, as ASoUE doesn't really have anything like that - disembodied hands falling on people's shoulders, and skeletons and things like that. That! I already noticed that was very unusual. |
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Post by Anka on Dec 10, 2012 9:46:30 GMT -5
He's too awesome for this world. Chapter 6: - The beginning of the chapter tells us that Mrs. Bass survived the fire in Hotel Denouement and that the story is written down many years later. - The memory about the picnic: Violet had a closer relationship to their father and Klaus to their mother. This is not the only point in the series where we can see that, when they think about their parents Violet almost always thinks about their father and Klaus about their mother. And it's so sad how they realize that their parent's will never come back  - Mr. Remora and Mrs. Bass must be very old if they have taught at the school for 47 years. - I wouldn't have expected Nero to call Duncan „the triplet“ but „the twin“. |
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Post by Dante on Dec 10, 2012 10:48:14 GMT -5
- The beginning of the chapter tells us that Mrs. Bass survived the fire in Hotel Denouement and that the story is written down many years later. I think we should read around this. It's clear that Handler wanted the fate of absolutely anyone condemned to the Hotel Denouement fire to be totally ambiguous and up to the reader, whereas this reference closes off those options. So I think I would take it as TPP retroactively rewriting this particular bit - perhaps we can say that Mrs. Bass was already arrested before TPP, perhaps on the scene of the robbery, but escaped with her loot. That would be one more reason for her to be on the run and in disguise; she'd definitely have been identified, which wouldn't necessarily have been the case if she'd gotten clean away. It also provides a reason for the teachers to have free time to come to the Hotel Denouement in the first place. The U.A. interacts with this subplot a little bit too, so perhaps we can pick up the thread there. |
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Post by Hermes on Dec 10, 2012 13:35:55 GMT -5
It remains true, though, that the book does seem to be written long after the events - this is true of most of the books, though there are a few lines in later books, and especially in TUA, which suggest that Lemony is writing things down as they happen.
As for the teachers having free time, I'd always supposed the later books happened in vacation, given that Carmelita was in the mountains with the Snow Scouts.
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Post by Dante on Dec 10, 2012 15:17:57 GMT -5
But of course, she could also be off school because the school's closed! I will totally admit that I came up with that idea just now, though. All I'm concerned with is preserving the integrity of TPP's ending, which requires the closure of Prufrock and all related events to have already happened - which is far from impossible.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Dec 10, 2012 16:32:25 GMT -5
~Chapter Three~ It is ironic that Lemony makes a mountain out of a molehill by interpreting the expression “to make a mountain out of a molehill” as “pretending that something is as horrible as a war or a ruined picnic when it is really only as horrible as a stubbed toe.” Possibly the fungus growing in the Orphans Shack is alluded to in TGG…? I can’t recall, but it seems as though there would have been an opportunity given Fiona’s interests in mycology and her research on the Baudelaire case. No one objects to Sunny scraping paint off the walls with her teeth, but the idea of Violet inhaling paint fumes is suggested as a possibility for a villainous plot? Although I think the context is different in the latter case; we’ll return to this in a few chapters. The Baudelaires are referred to as “orphans” in the Uncle Elwyn flashback, even though they would have had parents at that point. Obviously Isadora is not “absolutely identical” to Duncan – but I think we can take this simply as exaggeration. “‘Why aren’t you staying with your Aunt Josephine now?’ [Duncan asked] … ‘She died too,’ Violet said.” Documenting this for the discussion that will inevitably arise later. “‘We were three people born at the same time,’ Isadora explained, ‘but our brother, Quigley, died in the fire that killed our parents.’” This is interesting to read in relation to the Josephine quote. Did Snicket know Quigley was alive at this point? The brass lamps in the shapes of different fish reminds us of the fish-named teachers: Remora, Bass, Tench. Is this an allusion of some sort, or just a motif? ~Chapter Four~ Noteworthy is the fact that Violet is immersed into what we might consider the humanities, and Klaus into mathematics. This serves to further the misery each orphan experiences, of course, but it also reminds me a bit of TMM, in which each child completes a task outside his/her realm of expertise. The activities each teacher has their students complete ties back to the beginning of the book, which cautions us against doing anything that is exhausting and pointless. One might successfully draw parallels to this in real life education systems. “[Sunny] and her siblings had worked for some time at the Lucky Smells Lumbermill – but this equipment was simply inappropriate for such tiny fingers.” The idea that a stapler is more dangerous for a baby than a debarker is a good example of Snicketian logic. Words that rhyme with “Olaf”: If it helps, Isadora, The Gothic Archies certainly had a time of it. And now would be a good time to apologize in advance if at any point I misspell “Genghis” as “Genesis” – it’s an old habit I’ve never quite been able to break, though Genghis is an allusion to the emperor of the Mongol Empire. |
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