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Post by Hermes on Oct 14, 2013 12:18:43 GMT -5
[ I don't know if Qwerty's the mailman, though. I think that... for everything he knows, he can only be up to two of three things: Librarian, V.F.D. observer, mailman. Either of the latter two would supplement his knowledge as the former, but I don't think he could sustain all three roles. I suspect he probably just spends a lot of his free time, especially when the library is closed, up in a high garret with a pair of binoculars. I'm supposing that the Very Fast Delivery in Stain'd has something to do with VFD. Yet Lemony doesn't reach the Black Cat till afternoon - lots of time for Ellington to retrieve the statue, you might think, however slow she goes. Still, it seems yet another case of overkill, given that he could simply have collected the statue from Theodora and L, in his role as butler.
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Post by Dante on Oct 14, 2013 15:31:50 GMT -5
I'm supposing that the Very Fast Delivery in Stain'd has something to do with VFD. Yes, and that the mail carriers might be Qwerty's sources isn't a bad idea, but I don't think it's possible to suggest that Qwerty himself is also the mailman. It's hard enough to see how he can be both observer and librarian. It wouldn't be long before they figured out that there was something fishy about him, and they'd possess a lot of information about his scheme - they'd be able to recognise Sally Murphy, for instance. Better to discredit them and get them locked up, giving Hangfire at least time to complete whatever he's planning and get far away.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 14, 2013 15:49:26 GMT -5
Chapter 10.
Black Cat Coffee is clearly a very strange place. For one thing, you don't have to pay for its services. For another, anyone can get into the attic, making it rather insecure - admittedly L does not know in advance that that is what pressing the A button will do, but it's a fairly obvious thing to do in a speculative way.
I'm wondering about the electrical equipment - might the initials on it be CK? Though you might think she would be more interested in chemical equipment.
'The sun was dying....' - this day seems to have passed amazingly quickly. Though just when the sun sets would depend on latitude and also on time of year, which I don't think we know - graduation would suggest summer, but we can't be sure VFD follows such rules.
Does the fact that L chooses to walk off with the Harriet the Spy books imply that they have some special significance, more so than the other books referenced in the work? Also, clearly the library doesn't have an electronic security system.
So Hangfire knows about L and Moxie's exploits in the Sallis mansion - presumably Dame Sally told him.
'Where had I heard this person's voice before?' Presumably when he was acting as the butler - I had to check to see whether the butler actually spoke, but he did, though his precise words are not given.
Chapter 11.
Has Lost previously heard of Hangfire, given his reaction to the name?
So: sorry to keep asking this, but what exactly is Hangfire's plan? He wants to get Lemony out of the way - so he can get the BB? L's response, leaving the package at the desk for him to collect, certainly suggests that. Yet he tells L to bring the BB with him. So is he precisely anticipating L's reaction - which implies he knows L will know he isn't Ellington?
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Post by Dante on Oct 14, 2013 16:44:21 GMT -5
Black Cat Coffee is clearly a very strange place. For one thing, you don't have to pay for its services. For another, anyone can get into the attic, making it rather insecure - admittedly L does not know in advance that that is what pressing the A button will do, but it's a fairly obvious thing to do in a speculative way. I had assumed that, like the traffic lights and probably quite a few other services in Stain'd, the owners had left and the machinery was now just running by itself, running down stocks with electricity bills piling up unopened somewhere. Quite possibly former customers make sure to restock its ingredients. Whenever the Lemony Snicket novels are set, it's before those were introduced. I'd find it a little disorientating, technologically, to see something like that pop up. One of the clever points about the way the story is told - the butler is presented as being so minor a character as to not even have his lines presented directly to the reader. Although that's also a way of representing the lack of attention Snicket pays to him. Maybe Hangfire also had an associate hidden beneath a trapdoor somewhere at Blotted Boulevard with instructions to emerge and take action if Lemony showed up holding an appropriately-sized parcel.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 14, 2013 16:59:02 GMT -5
Whenever the Lemony Snicket novels are set, it's before those were introduced. I'd find it a little disorientating, technologically, to see something like that pop up. Lemony's world includes fax machines and fibre-optic cables. I don't think there's any piece of technology I'd absolutely rule out: you just have to wait and see. (And we did have electronic security in libraries in the 80's.)
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Oct 14, 2013 17:09:45 GMT -5
Well, it's suggested later that the telegram came from Killdeer Fields and it was sent around the time Ellington's father disappeared. So, Ellington's father would be a good candidate for the telegram sender. Of course, this can be true alongside the theory that Hangfire sent the telegram. Well, they are the obvious people. I was thinking it may come from someone else altogether... Oh really? I don't remember him saying that... could you show me where? Not that i don't believe you, of course, but id like to read his exact words. Should we add it to the recipe thread? is there a recipe thread? I must read this Oh wow, good question. I've drunk tea all my life, as far as i can tell, and i have it about 4 times a day. im practically made of tea. Hmm...that is, of course a suitable explanation, but i think they will have some role to play in future books. (think/hope) Lemony and snicket? I think..... it depnds if you take that paragraph to mean the whole series or just the first book. I think this is something that retrospect can clarify That actually makes sense. Charlie, you dirty boy . Thats a very nice theory! I thinkt here is certianly a lot mroe contact between handler ad seth tha handelr ad eliquest. Pft. Thats a boring awnser. Because its probably correct. Thats a veyr 9ood question to which i see no obvious awnser
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Post by Dante on Oct 15, 2013 1:45:54 GMT -5
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Oct 15, 2013 2:29:28 GMT -5
Its new book day. In 3 hours i will be off to buy my newy cop of ?1. But there is just about time to comment on peoples comments and read a certain thirteenth chapter I suppose.... VFD is, i think, not mentioned by name in the entire first book, except maybe in this code. Subtlty seems to be something handler is aiming for here.
Of course, it doest make much sense at all in a business way. But then, with pip and squeak only asking for book tips, i dont think money is to important in staind anymore.
In case anyone is interested, none of the libraries in my local area have anything like that, so for a town like stain'd by the sea, that would be quite a advancement.
CHAPTER THRITEEN
So hector is a volunteer. Its shame he doesn't seem to recognize jaques in TVV, however.
What does lemony have sewn in the linen of his jacket?
And so thats where we are left...... and thats the end of the re-read. After 11 months and 2 weeks. It was fun. Is it to hasty to suggest an ATWQ Re-read either before or after the final book? But anyway, thanks to everyone who posted notes.
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Post by Dante on Oct 15, 2013 2:51:47 GMT -5
Of course, it doest make much sense at all in a business way. But then, with pip and squeak only asking for book tips, i dont think money is to important in staind anymore. This is the impression I get, certainly. Nothing works and nobody has any money, so people are looking for whatever else they can find that has value to them. I actually went back and reread TVV, or at least parts of it, after ?1, and if you assume that Hector has to lie to keep V.F.D. a secret but is otherwise sympathetic to everything about it, then the book still makes a surprising amount of sense. That is very mysterious, and I'm not quite sure I can unpick this. It could be something to do with his continuing mission, however.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 15, 2013 15:39:01 GMT -5
Since I have not yet managed to get WDYSHL, I thought I might as well post the last episode of my WCTBATH reread.
Chapter 12.
'My schooling is over' - really? Will he not return to school to take part in the events of TBL? But certainly, here as in ASOUE, the thought that teenagers should be at school does not seem to have taken hold in Snicketland.
'My father is alive and well...' But on the next page 'My parents can't help me... they're helpless'. There is clearly a mystery yet to be revealed here.
So, the aim of his plan with Kit is to rescue an item from a museum. Beyond this we know nothing. There's a strange parallelism with the events in Stain'd, which also surround an item which ought to be in the right hands.
'her long fingers would be good at entangling things ...' - this reminds me of the untying of knots in TBL.
I wasn't quite right to say that the action of this story covers only two days; it goes go on into the third. Lemony gets more sleep than the Baudelaires did during their later adventures, but he does seem rather short of things to eat.
So what is the book that answers Ellington's questions? Of course, to know this we would have to know what her questions are.
The Mitchums seem at one point to lose track of which of them is which. "I already said stealing things, Harvey." "No, you said burglary." But it was Harvey who said burglary.
Stew mimics Lemony for the second time - I still think this is not enough evidence that he is Nero.
'I've also heard him imitate the cries of birds' - so by now he has worked out that Hangfire is the butler.
Chapter 13.
So, Hector was certainly a surprise. Come to think of it, the bit about putting your fear aside may explain him in later life as well - and perhaps other characters, such as Charles. Perhaps even Jerome? I will be very annoyed if Jerome turns out to be a volunteer, but I guess there is a way of finessing it, given that it's quite possible that some of the documents in TUA are forgeries, though we don't know which.
'lately I had been thinking that the clue was something else.' This may just be an expression of L's fascination with Ellington, but may also mean that he is thinking the BB is less important to the plot than he first supposed.
Might Hector's map of the city's waterworks connect up with the map showing underground passages mentioned in TEE?
Hector's project seems to point to the Great Unknown, which of course we suspect is the real BB.
And yes, what is sewn into L's jacket? A bag of coffee? A sugar bowl? No, either of those things would be too visible.
Mister M, I want to thank you for leading us through this reread. I know you have had to plough a lonely furrow at times. The old reread was a bit like this - it began with hundreds of people, but later for a long time there were just three of us, Dante, cwm and myself. Then right at the end a new recruit joined us - Sherry something, if I remember rightly. But we always had some company, while you were sometimes on your own. This will be an important contribution to the annals of Snicketology.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 7, 2013 6:08:05 GMT -5
Apologies hermes, for no looking at this sooner. I wasn't quite right to say that the action of this story covers only two days; it goes go on into the third. Lemony gets more sleep than the Baudelaires did during their later adventures, but he does seem rather short of things to eat. On reflection, the second book takes place in less than 24 hours, correct? Is this somehow related to the books Ellington borrowed in ?2? or did i miss this? Yeah, after ?2 i dont think he there is any chance he is nero anymore I don't think any of us expected widdershins to appear in the next book for sure. I do hope so.... i hope this will be something if not stated then alluded to more in ?3 How can you sew a sugar bowl onto something? Aw, thanks
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Post by Hermes on Nov 8, 2013 13:17:08 GMT -5
I wasn't quite right to say that the action of this story covers only two days; it goes go on into the third. Lemony gets more sleep than the Baudelaires did during their later adventures, but he does seem rather short of things to eat. On reflection, the second book takes place in less than 24 hours, correct? Yes, that's right. I don't think so - she wants those books for practical reasons; what is being spoken of here seems to go deeper. Into, not onto. You could stitch a sugar bowl into the lining, just by making a hole, putting the bowl in, and sewing it up again. But it would be very conspicuous.
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