MamaLu
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 23
Likes: 2
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Post by MamaLu on Oct 29, 2012 15:15:57 GMT -5
I'd love to take part, I'll read the books to my kids so hopefully we should be ok getting through them, will do my very best anyway as it would be good to discuss them with you all because, obviously having just joined it's hard to add anything really to the discussions that have taken place long ago, will be good to start afresh, Warm smiles, MamaLu x
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Post by theaquasprite on Oct 30, 2012 19:18:21 GMT -5
I've been wanting to reread them for awhile, so sure, count me in. It'd be interesting to see how my perspective has changed from when I was a kid to now.
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Post by Invisible on Nov 3, 2012 19:22:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I'll have to pull out of this. I want to focus on the things I *should* be focusing on. If that makes sense.
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Post by B. on Nov 4, 2012 3:08:09 GMT -5
You can still count me in, however I am doing NaNoWriMo and I'm busy with school, so I might not be so active. Also, I am definitely going to have to miss book six and seven.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 5, 2012 3:31:36 GMT -5
So, here we are at the beginning of not just ASOUE, but the entire Snicket universe - so, Here we go! This is the front cover of the paperback version The dear reader letter refers to cold porridge but im pretty sure it's oatmeal ---Chapter One--- The First chapters on both ASOUE, and ATWQ both work as first paragrpahs for the entire series. And you wouldn't get the two confused. You can instantly see the difference The Entirr fitst chapter does have a difftent feel to not just the rest of the book, but most of the seires. Its very drawn out, and really a sort of prolouge to the first book. I like to think about how it would be if this was the case = a chapter 0 equivlant to chapter 14? All three baudleries tend to read, whereas, only violet is seen inventing, and sunny biting or cooking (with a few exceptions, TMM mainly). However, Klaus is obviously much better at it than vioelt and sunny Gak. Sunny;s first in-book word. Mr Poes walking to the baudilaires is extremely sinister, even though you know its mr poe. Maybe voilet should have thrown that rock. It would certainly have kept the baudleris out of a lot of trouble. The baudleries listen in on their parent's conversations. Presumably not vfd Related. Sunny made a noise like an angry bird - This made me laugh out loud. ‘My Dears’ definetly shows a caring side to Mr Poe. He's not evil, just dimwitted. How was the baudilare fire started? And who by? I’ll get onto this in The Rare Edition notes The Bausleries were quite literlaly taken from their previous lives. They never see or mention any of their friends again - this is of course assuming they have friends which they must. But, I suppsoe. Each book is a different life for the baudeiers with them living (albeit shortly) in a new location with new people in a new stage in their disocvery of VFD. After Book 13, The baudleries are able to live a new life, which, in my mind, is closer to their first life than the others. --Chapter Two--- Sunny is too young to understand whats going on? She seems quite able for the rest of the book Violets microscope and Klaus favourite Pen. These seem a bit obscure.. Maybe not the mcirscope. But did Klaus realy take that many notes? There are never any other references to past note-taking in the books, although he does start a commonplace book around book 11(ish) Blanched - exactly how i would imgine mr poes house. From my personal experience, sons of well respected members of the banking community generally act like animals in a zoo. If you havent listened to the audio books, then you must for one reason only - Tim Curry doing mr Poes ocugh, This is hilarious Count Olaf being the closest relatvie geographically This is the first defint sign of how useless Mr Poe will be, Count and an actor. What is a count anyway? Has anyone actually met a count before? Olaf doesn’t seem very Count-y. I will get to the royal gardens later
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Nov 5, 2012 4:17:49 GMT -5
Okay, I wanted to post the notes for until friday now, but something stole my time yesterday and so I only could do chapter 1 and 2. I hope I didn't focus on stupid details too much.
Chapter 1
-Violet's description at the beginning already tells us that she's right-handed, a fact that will be important later. I think you all noticed this, but it's nice. -Violet is nervous and thinks the approaching figure of Mr. Poe is frightning, and Klaus tells her that it's only scary because of the mist. Later Sunny makes „ a noise that sounds like an angry bird“. It seems like Violet and Sunny know that there is something wrong and Klaus not. - I like Mr. Poe's „fine, thank you“ and „Yes, it's a nice day“. But the „but he looked very sad“ after the first one ruins everything. - Klaus thinks about the books he won't be able to read first and not about his dead parents. Maybe he just avoids thinking about them. - I almost feel sorry for Mr. Poe when Violet feels like he is the executioner because it's not really his fault.
Chapter 2:
- Violet having a microscope is okay but not very inventor-like, more like a scientist. But what does Klaus want with a favourite pen? He's a reader and not a writer and he only starts taking notes later in the series. - the room smells of „some sort of ghastly flower“ - Is there an important flower anywhere in the books? -Mr. Poe says that the parents' will was that they are raised „in the most convenient way possible“. It would be strange if it really says so, because there is no clear definition what convenient is in that case, and because of their work with VFD I think they should have been more careful because they knew that something could happen to them. -“He's an actor by trade and often travels around the world with VARIOUS theater companies“. We only know one theater company. So there must be more people Olaf works with and maybe more evil things he does with them. Or maybe he is really an actor sometimes. - They pass horse-drawn carriages and motorcycles with their automobile. It seems like cars are not common but carriages and motorcycles are
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Post by Christmas Chief on Nov 5, 2012 9:56:55 GMT -5
The dear reader letter refers to cold porridge but im pretty sure it's oatmeal They're more or less synonymous. I think "porridge" was there to keep in sequence with the gothic listings, whereas the text itself uses oatmeal. I'm not sure I'd call it a prologue, but I agree the first chapter does well setting the mood and tone for the rest of the series. The chapter deals with a lot of exposition, which I'll address below. Mr. Poe could use a good concussion, is that what you're saying? Because I agree. No, presumably not. The Baudelaire parents wouldn't speak of V.F.D.-related matters in front of their children, so I don't think it's a problem continuity-wise. Later in the text it mentions that none of the Baudelaires old friends come to visit them, even when their companionship is needed most. So, clearly, they do have some acquaintances within the community. I think this is nodding toward Klaus's abilities as a researcher. Instead of mourning the passing of a favorite book, of which he probably has many, he mourns the passing of a pen, which simply serves to represent his field of interest. It would have made Violet and Sunny's lamentations seem trivial if Klaus had been saddened by seeing the entire library in ashes while his sisters mourned specific items. A count is a title of nobility, which Olaf may or may not legitimately have. Take it for now as a nod to the gothic influences in this novel. - Klaus thinks about the books he won't be able to read first and not about his dead parents. Maybe he just avoids thinking about them. I think they're all in denial, a bit. Violet thinks it's a joke; Klaus focuses on the meaning of the word "perished." I wonder if the Baudelaires go through all five stages of death? There's a nod to this in the BB:RE notes. Watch out for Justice Strauss's mention of a "poisonous plant and illegal use of someone’s credit card." We know from the UA he is an (atrocious) actor, for sinister purposes or otherwise. However, we should be wary of information given by Mr. Poe - Olaf is prone to exaggerate. Nonetheless, I shouldn't think it unlikely he has contacts outside the "main ten." Elements that give the ASOUEworld a timeless feel, to be sure. Here are my notes on Chapter One and some of the front and back matter for this volume. ~~ Front Matter & Chapter One ~~ Let’s start by examining the title. The Bad Beginning presumably applies not only to the bad beginning in this book – the death of the Baudelaires parents – but also the beginning to the series. Note the adjective isn’t particularly obscure or even that descriptive. “Bad” is rather vague by nature, which might be appropriate in that an array of “bad” things happen in the book, but the title has nothing on, say, “ersatz.” Also, like TPP and The End, the book acknowledges its chronological space in a larger series. This along with a few other features sets up the contrast for The End, something you’ll all address, I’m sure, in another twelve weeks or so. The cover illustration, HC edition: There’s a nice gloomy blue hue over everything in the Olaf home that contrasts with the bright world outside. It’s well done, I think, and gives Olaf a visually sinister introduction. I’m additionally a fan of the inner border. I think it’s appropriate that since the series deals so much with eyes that it should be illustrated on the front cover. Though the insignia itself was probably conceived of much later, it’s still possible to see a V,F, and D in the more traditional renditions bordering the cover illustration: Next: The cover illustration, Egmont edition: Egmont’s version focuses a lot more on Olaf, which I find interesting. The book is about him, really, as much as it is about the Baudelaires. He’s the main antagonist, the main source of conflict, the entity that moves the story along. It’s not wrong he should take up so much of the spotlight. The dedication: It’s generally agreed that Beatrice wasn’t thought of as the Baudelaires mother until later in the series, but it’s still nice to see her here. Dead, as the Baudelaires are soon to find out. In retrospect, it’s a nice paratextual irony. The frontispiece gives us a fair depiction of the city. The gargoyle is a nice touch, as is the Baudelaires passing the firemen who were too late. A few notes on the Dear Reader. “From the first page of this book when the children are at the beach and receive terrible news” isn’t quite accurate. We don’t know the Baudelaires whereabouts until page two, and they don’t receive the bad news until page eight. I wonder if the first eight pages take up a normal typed page, i.e., one with normal font, margins, and page size? …I checked. It takes about two. But I digress. The actual content of the DR sets the tone for the rest of the series. We have pleas to ignore/put down/destroy the book, a list of items we’ll find within the book, a stamp, a sign-off, and a price tag. So, Chapter One. Page one of book one begins by telling us how everything ends, which is badly. The characters are introduced in a rather straightforward manner. Instead of jumping into action and explaining later, we get an explanation, then action. It works here, I think, as it means there’s no need to interrupt the story with information we already know. Some notes about the characters. Violet is established to be right-handed, and we are reminded of this a number of times, as I recall, throughout the text. I’ll address whether this is effective foreshadowing or not when we reach chapter twelve. The facts Klaus remembers – how to tell an alligator from a crocodile and who killed Julius Caesar – give us an idea of his breadth of knowledge, possibly so it’s not so unbelievable later on. “Gack,” as I mentioned above, also appears in TGG when the Baudelaires are under almost identical circumstances. The “fog” scene, which foreshadows doom, runs by having the Baudelaires experience dread, then relief, then more dread. Klaus’s statement that “It only seems scary because of all the mist” reads like an acknowledgement of this device.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 5, 2012 12:24:28 GMT -5
My notes on Ankas Notes ;
Violet's description at the beginning already tells us that she's right-handed, a fact that will be important later. I think you all noticed this, but it's nice. - Yeah, ti is hammered home quite a few times, the one that sticks out most for me is when she is serving dinner, and considers switching hands.
the room smells of „some sort of ghastly flower“ - Is there an important flower anywhere in the books? - I recall a theory about this somewhere. If anyone knows its whereabouts, please share it with us!
He's an actor by trade and often travels around the world with VARIOUS theater companies“. - I Imagine Olaf working acting with the sinister duo, for some reason.
And Sherry Ann ;
Mr. Poe could use a good concussion, is that what you're saying? Because I agree. - Yeah, I suppose, but I do like Mr Poe!
Later in the text it mentions that none of the Baudelaires old friends come to visit them - Yes! I noticed this when reading Chapter 4!
I wonder if the Baudelaires go through all five stages of death? - Hm… Denial, Anger, Bargining, Depression, and Acceptance. Of all the Bauds, Klaus seems to fit this idea most.
Though the insignia itself was probably conceived of much later, it’s still possible to see a V,F, and D in the more traditional renditions bordering the cover illustration - When I was younger, and before I had noticed the change in the eye insignia, I used to spend hours trying to work out how VFD was hidden in the eye, and I never thought of this!
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Post by Christmas Chief on Nov 5, 2012 12:50:52 GMT -5
the room smells of „some sort of ghastly flower“ - Is there an important flower anywhere in the books? - I recall a theory about this somewhere. If anyone knows its whereabouts, please share it with us! Well, I was going to post about this later, but since it's come up: Dante covered it in the original reread. “ p.35 “I can tell you it concerns a poisonous plant and illegal use of someone’s credit card.” Despite Geraldine Julienne’s article in The Daily Punctilio “No Poisonous Plants Were Removed from Royal Gardens Prior to Destruction, Official Fire Department Reports.” I have reason to believe that the poisonous plant Justice Strauss referred to was removed from the Royal Gardens prior to its destruction.” Referring back to my earlier speculation, it would seem that the ill-mannered individual who visited the Royal Gardens there stole a poisonous plant, or perhaps bought it with a stolen credit card. The Royal Gardens may then have been destroyed to hide this fact, with the O.F.D. covering up the arson. The fate of the plant? A poisonous plant might be the right sort of size to hide carefully under a top hat, and Mr. Poe’s children’s room smells of “ some sort of ghastly flower”… there’s other evidence to suggest that the plant turns up later in TBB.
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Post by Old Swinburne on Nov 5, 2012 13:59:50 GMT -5
It occurs to me that the use of a foggy beach in the opening pages is a subversion of pathetic fallacy, which is used a lot in gothic novels. The baudelaires are not bothered by it, and so the only effect it has is on the reader, and Snicket even goes some way to say how it is not a worrying thing. It's interesting that the first thing Klaus thinks about is the burning library. Of course, this is merely to soften the terrible blow; it allows him to accept each terrible thing one at a time.
Page 15- This means that the Baudelaire's great great great great great great grandparent is Olaf's great great grandparent or his great great great grandparent. I hope that makes that clear. I'll add more when I have more time.
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Post by theaquasprite on Nov 5, 2012 18:05:42 GMT -5
Alright, here are my notes. I can't say they will contribute much, though. Sorry.
Chapter One:
Sunny's descriptions throughout the series are vague when it comes to size (which is compared to objects which themselves can vary in size) and is the only orphan with no specified age (we can only assume it's below 2). Is there a purpose in that?
Would things really have been different had Violet thrown the stone after all? It almost seems as if the ominous figure was representing their future misfortunes themselves, but whether the stone would have prevented them is doubtful. If Handler's philosophy is that bad things are going to happen anyway, then maybe the stone would be representative of an action that would delay misfortune, rather than preventing it entirely (which, I'm guessing, would have happened had Mr. Poe gotten injured by it). Reading further, it looks like Violet blames him, too.
Chapter Two:
When I first read TBB, I remember thinking that the portrayal of the Baudelaire Parents' deaths and children's grief seemed flat (would that be the word?) I'm not sure if my opinion has changed completely; on one hand when they're first informed the reaction is fairly realistic with numbness/denial. On the other, I don't know, it just seems detached compared to how they experience grief in the later books. Maybe because most of it happens offscreen and we're basically told just to think of our personal experiences with grief?
Wouldn't a toolkit have fit better for Violet instead of the microscope?
Assuming that Count Olaf is really a Count, why doesn't he have a fortune of his own? Duchess R was said to be well off because of her nobility, while Olaf's is in name only.
One can only wonder at how the people of Snicketland go about their daily lives, driving on roads like Doldrum Drive and going to other similarly named places.
If their parents money was managed at Mr. Poe's bank, shouldn't one of the children have gone there at least once?
I'm guessing the eye was to set the feel of Olaf's influence on the children throughout the series, him finding them where ever they seem to be.
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Post by soufflé on Nov 5, 2012 19:49:20 GMT -5
You can still count me in, however I am doing NaNoWriMo and I'm busy with school, so I might not be so active.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 6, 2012 3:29:18 GMT -5
Maybe because most of it happens offscreen and we're basically told just to think of our personal experiences with grief? - This reminds me, many writers ahve toruble portryaing grief and loss, and i think that making ypu draw on your personal experiences is defintley a clever way of getting a bit of grief into ther book, and quickly, before moving on with the story. --Chapter Three-- His houise is a depressing pigsty. This feels like it should be on the dear reader letter Olaf is very secretive about VFD is he, signing of a list of chores with the oragnzations insignia Repairing windows and cleaning chimmenys - why would these intrest violet? Are they particularly inventive things? I Love the baudilare's memories of events pre-book. Im pretty sure there is one in each book, except for book 13, but that contains enough information about them anyway. The knocking on the dopr instantly made me think who could that be at this hour? Ah. So we have a mention of some of the baudiares pre-fire lives here. I’d forgotten this. The Baudilares friends clearly weren't that great, if they’ve not tried to contact them Yet ,again, I’ll talk about Justice Strauss’ case when we reach Chapter 14 And so we have this book’s library. Each libray is a themed library, but im pretty sure book 5’s is just a genral liabry? Sunnys reading skills seem to be very low if she wants a picture book. Do we ever have any mention of her developing her reading skills? --Chapter Four-- The Baudilares offering to do chores ‘uh!’ You just want to hug them! They spend all their time doing jobs for count olaf, but they’re willing to do more jobs for justice strauss. I love them Violet thinks of pisoning olaf. This ahs been mentioned before, but, still. I highly doubt she would have done such a thing though
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Post by theaquasprite on Nov 6, 2012 13:19:37 GMT -5
On Misterm's notes: Maybe because most of it happens offscreen and we're basically told just to think of our personal experiences with grief? - This reminds me, many writers ahve toruble portryaing grief and loss, and i think that making ypu draw on your personal experiences is defintley a clever way of getting a bit of grief into ther book, and quickly, before moving on with the story. I see your point. It certainlly would have slowed things down if the books constantly dwelled on them mourning and it's true that the initial grief probably would have been, as Snicket says, pointless.--Chapter Three-- Olaf is very secretive about VFD is he, signing of a list of chores with the oragnzations insignia I noticed that, too. It seems kind of weird in a way, since the "good" side of the schism associate themselves with that symbol, too. Maybe the significance of it didn't matter to him anymore and he just used it for the fear factor of it?Repairing windows and cleaning chimmenys - why would these intrest violet? Are they particularly inventive things? I suppose she was interested in how things are made to expand on her knowledge. That, or it gives her an opportunity to try an inventive way of fixing things.Ah. So we have a mention of some of the baudiares pre-fire lives here. I’d forgotten this. The Baudilares friends clearly weren't that great, if they’ve not tried to contact them Somewhat related, I think the last mention of any of their prior social lives is in book 6, a passing mention of a friend of Violet's. I could be wrong, though.And so we have this book’s library. Each libray is a themed library, but im pretty sure book 5’s is just a genral liabry? I think this one can be considered general to some extent. It's not as narrow as, say the "in" library or Josephine's grammar library.Sunnys reading skills seem to be very low if she wants a picture book. Do we ever have any mention of her developing her reading skills? This might also have to do with how she's portrayed as a more realistic infant here, as opposed to the rest of the series. I'm not sure if she ever learns to read for herself, though. Maybe by Chapter Fourteen of The End? She was speaking full sentences by then, so maybe she learned to read as well.--Chapter Four-- The Baudilares offering to do chores ‘uh!’ You just want to hug them! They spend all their time doing jobs for count olaf, but they’re willing to do more jobs for justice strauss. I love them It's a bit heartbreaking, too. Considering that they were scared that she would be expecting payment for her kindness.Violet thinks of pisoning olaf. This ahs been mentioned before, but, still. I highly doubt she would have done such a thing though I agree. I suppose the part in The End made it seem like they wouldn't have thought of it. We could just take it to mean that here, it's more fantasies, while in The End, they were seriously considering it. I'll post my notes a little later on.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Nov 6, 2012 14:15:56 GMT -5
Before I comment on this, is everyone here clear on how the "quote" coding works? I know it can be confusing when dealing with large amounts of text, but it's also quite useful after you know the basics.
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