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Post by Hermes on Feb 21, 2014 15:40:01 GMT -5
I agree about the BB: Hangfire's attitude to it is certainly puzzling, and there are indications of that in the first book as well. For one thing, Moxie emphasises that it would be easy to get hold of, making Hangfire's elaborate plan rather pointless, and for another, it's not even clear that his plan would have helped him to get hold of it, since if L. and Theodora had been arrested, the Mitchums would have got it and would presumably have returned it to the Mallahans. (Though now we know Stew is in league with the villains, one can get round that by saying he could have swiped it.)
On the other hand, the BB does seem to be important in some way - it is surely connected with the tadpoles, and also with Hector's quest for a mysterious thing seen in the ocean.
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Post by Dante on Feb 21, 2014 15:41:53 GMT -5
I look forward to the more to come, Ennui, but I'll note first that I too found ?2 suspiciously upbeat. I simply don't buy the optimism of the ending - everyone's pals and will come together to defeat the villains, there's a way to save the town and the octopi and the company, etc. Actually, arguably the next stage in the Kit subplot steps right in to undermine any sense of elation that may bring, but I distrust the Stain'd-centric optimism on its own terms. Especially given the book's position in the series - I think that, when everything is all said and done, what I'm going to enjoy about ATWQ is the fact that it's a tetralogy rather than a trilogy, making it harder to make predictions based on knowing the literary formula.
What I'm anticipating regarding Snicket's relationship with his friends and Cleo's plans for the town is a more negative swerve - specifically, we know that Lemony is going to be responsible for destroying a library at some point, and given that the next book is the arson book, I'm wondering if that will happen in ?3 and the novel will end with Lemony's reputation in the town and with his peers totally in tatters. Similarly, Cleo's plan may either fail catastrophically or turn out to simply be a new kind of environmental exploitation. That would be cynical as heck, but look at how the Averse turns out in twenty, thirty-odd years. There's little rationality to any hope there.
As for the Bombinating Beast, we do learn a bit more. The fact that Hangfire and his allies have easy access to the Bombinating Bench (er, by which I mean the bench probably made of the same wood that's found in the Colophon Clinic) reinforces what I think was fairly clear, that it's the statue's structure rather than its composition that's significant; that is, what it's made of isn't so important as what it can do. But I think the real reason Hangfire hasn't picked it up is - well, Snicket gives a plausible reason, which is that if Hangfire grabs it he might have to make good on his promise to Ellington. But I think it's more that he would have a hard time doing so without risking Ellington discovering his true identity. In the meantime, Hangfire can be reasonably confident that Ellington isn't going to let it slip. The statue stays safely tucked away, Ellington stays safely tucked away, what more could he ask for? Apart from the realisation of whatever bizarre and barbarous plan he's concocted.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 21, 2014 17:15:47 GMT -5
Of course, if Hangfire intends to take the BB in the end, he will have to reveal himself at some point. So I'm guessing he has some reason for waiting, that the doesn't need it until something else has been achieved - e.g. the tadpoles coming to maturity.
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Post by Dante on Feb 22, 2014 5:21:18 GMT -5
Agreed. He doesn't necessarily need it immediately, he just needs to be in a position where he can get his hands on it whenever he wants.
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Post by The Duchess on Feb 23, 2014 14:29:28 GMT -5
It just came to my mind that Zada and Zora may be inspired by Flora and Fauna from The Addams Family. What do you think?
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Post by Dante on Feb 23, 2014 15:00:44 GMT -5
I don't know much about the Addams Family, but if they have two identical maids, then why not? I'm not really sure why Zada and Zora are two identical people with similar names, but being a reference might account for it.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 22, 2014 15:03:26 GMT -5
Resuming my reading.
Chapter 9.
The picture of L looking at Ellington is a fascinated way is lovely. I get the distinct feeling that Seth doesn't like Ellington.
L says he is not in Stain'd because of the terrible villain but because his chaperone is there - but of course it was Hangfire who originally invited Theodora to come, as later became clear. Not that this explains why she is still in Stain'd, which we suspect may have more to do with VFD politics.
The description of E's life with her father will no doubt become very significant. Whatever the truth about him, it is quite reasonable that Hangfire would want to kidnap him, for the same reason he kidnapped Cleo, to get him to work on his mysterious experiments. On the other hand, one can well imagine Mr Feint sharing the environmentalist aims of the Inhumane Society.
So what is the tune played by the music box? Is it Black Brown and Beige?
'that every adult did something terrible sooner or later. And every child, I thought, sooner or later becomes an adult.' Definite echoes of ASOUE here, I think; at first the Baudelaires thought that Olaf and co. did terrible things because they were terrible people, but soon it became clear that it was more complex than that, and everyone was gradually led into acts of villainy. I think that whatever the truth about Hangfire turns out to be, it will be more complex than 'he does bad things because he is bad'.
The Knights' leaving Stain'd seems very sudden - we know they planned to leave, but this morning they didn't know it would be so soon. Did something specific make it happen?
The revelations about Stew are interesting, but I think have been discussed enough already.
So L returns the BB to E - which he had earlier promised to do, though he seemed at one point to be having regrets about this. She says it will be safe if locked on the jail, but of course she intends to escape - and indeed L has just told her how. Clearly L is being corrupted.
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Post by The Duchess on Mar 24, 2014 20:14:33 GMT -5
I think that the tune might be Caravan, by Duke Ellington. I listened to it and it sounded like a perfect tune to ATWQ.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 25, 2014 9:55:40 GMT -5
Interesting. 'Caravan' is already referred to in the story, of course, as the name of a street.
Chapter 10.
I think Seth may not like Moxie either. I guess he's a Lemony/Beatrice shipper.
Sneaked or snuck? Theodora reminds me of Josephine here. 'Sneaked' was historically correct, but 'snuck' is making so much headway that some people now think of 'sneaked' as a mistake - after all, when a past tense has a strong form, the weak form (like 'runned' or 'thinked') is normally a mistake. (I see Firefox is objecting to 'snuck', but it often makes odd judgements.) In general the trend goes the other way - 'slayed', for instance, seems to be replacing 'slew'. (Firefox also objects to 'slayed'. In this case it is clearly right.)
More curious guidance from Qwerty. That he is the - or at least a - VFD observer seems clear, but doesn't fully explain why he carefully guides our heroes towards the right answers.
Moxie refers to an underground tunnel. Is this coincidence - coincidences certainly happen in this world, witness Ishmael's and Olaf's stories in The End - or does she know something?
Picking up on something I think Charlie said a while ago, I quite like the word 'sweetheart'. For one thing it is gender-neutral, so one can just say 'we are sweethearts' instead of 'we are boyfriend and girlfriend'. I think it also has a stronger sense of permanence than 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend'.
Lemony is over-detecting again when he says Cleo is at the Colophon clinic - it may be the most obvious place, as Dr F works there, but for that very reason they may have taken her somewhere else. But L is always right about these things.
Reading the same books as a basis for trust - this picks up on a theme from ASOUE, especially TPP. So far as I can see, this way of thinking is never proved wrong.
Kit's name is mentioned for the first time, I think.
The Colophon Clinic was presumably inland from Stain'd, as they don't have to cross the 'sea' to get there. Has anyone noticed, by the way, what a lot of vertical buildings there are in the neighbourhood - the lighthouse, the pen-shaped tower, the tower at Colophon Clinic, the bell-tower at Wade Academy - and doesn't FU13 introduce another?
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Post by bandit on Mar 25, 2014 15:50:16 GMT -5
Interesting. 'Caravan' is already referred to in the story, of course, as the name of a street. . Parfait? |
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Post by snickerdoodle on Mar 26, 2014 1:39:57 GMT -5
I am new here, and I know I am late to the party, but one of the book references is driving me batty. Lemony talks about 3 books all by the same author, and I know the 2, but can't recall the third. The person who writes creepy notes and ruins summers is obviously "I know what you did last summer" by Lois Duncan, the one about the family who does not change even though the children want to is "locked in time", but what is the one about the girl who spies on her neighbors? I have read all of her books many moons ago, but don't recall that. Looking at her book summaries on amazon didn't jog my memory either. Anyone here know which one that is, or am I off base altogether?
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Post by Skelly Craig on Mar 26, 2014 3:07:27 GMT -5
Hi snickerdoodle, there's still two tomes left, so it's not that late. You're guesses for the two books are very interesting, but I'm afraid Lemony has meant different books, which is why you have trouble finding the third one, considering they're all from the same author. The author Lemony is talking about is Louise Fitzhugh. The one "about a girl who spies on her neighbours" is called 'Harriet The Spy', the one "about creepy notes that ruin people’s summer" is called 'The Long Secret', and the one "about a family that does not change even though the children want it to" is actually called 'Nobody's Family is Going To Change'. Lemony has mentioned 'Harriet The Spy' and 'The Long Secret' in the previous book already, WCTBATH, on p.159f. Here's a nifty little compilation of the book's covers and the appropriate ATWQ quotes. |
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Post by snickerdoodle on Mar 26, 2014 10:29:13 GMT -5
Ah fiddlesticks. My first thought was Harriet the spy, but since he had referenced them earlier I was hoping it was something different! And the other two fit the Lois Duncan books so perfectly! I was a big fan of Harriet growing up, but never read her other books. My school library must not have had them, because when I liked an author I read everything they wrote.
Thanks for clearing that up!
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Post by Dante on Mar 29, 2014 12:22:51 GMT -5
The description of E's life with her father will no doubt become very significant. If nobody else writes one, then when Chapter Eleven comes along then I'll do a close comparison between Ellington's description of her home life, and the props in Hangfire's tower room. It's quite illuminating. |
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Post by Hermes on Mar 29, 2014 17:02:31 GMT -5
Chapter 11.
So, members of VFD are not detectives - though they may be disguised as such (witness Jacques in TUA). Theodora seems to have been called upon to act as a detective in Stain'd - twice now - but presumably that is part of her cover. And they poke around because if they don't no one else will. It is rather a strange justification. But much about VFD is strange.
Moxie and Squeak both have their fathers' watches. L doesn't have a watch, but it later emerges that this was because the things he got from his father were left behind at the station. (Does this mean he had seen his real father shortly before the start of the story?) This of course fits in with the theme of inactive parents. Do we know if Ellington has a watch?
So; there are rooms with small beds and shackles, where it seems the Inhumane Society hope to keep children prisoner. But the room with fishtanks and shackles is much more puzzling; are they planning an experiment involving children and tadpoles (or their adult forms)? If so, what might this be?
So, the Colonel's room contains a glass of wine, and, as it later turns out, a record-player (presumably brought by Nurse Dander from Ellington's apartments earlier that day). No books, though, and no wildflowers or baby animals. We should bear in mind that DH has said that Ellington's father is a prisoner - though that, no doubt, can be read in more than one way.
L thinks that Hangfire does not want E to bring the BB, because then he would have to release her father - this may be misreading the situation somewhat, but it is certainly true that, considering his apparent anxiety to get the BB, it is odd that he has made no effort to collect it.
It isn't, by the way, entirely clear that the man in the tower is Hangfire. L assumes that he is, after (correctly) detecting that he is not Colonel Colophon. But might be be someone intimidated into playing a part, as Sally Murphy was?
Why does the man tell Lemony to listen? Apparently the only thing there is to listen for is the Dilemma: and yet when Lemony refers to the Dilemma, the man seems not to know what he means.
The unravelling of the bandage reminds me of Dewey's descent while unravelling the rope in TPP.
'The water splashed, like one of his shoes had fallen in, or perhaps something had splashed out of the water.' Interesting. A beast?
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