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Post by Agathological on Sept 7, 2014 6:24:06 GMT -5
I was watching a little 3 minute video about Handler describing the series and he says that Markson's traits will start to rub-off on Lemony; which I don't get; they are diametrically opposed; from his youth to adulthood. i don't know what he meant.
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Post by gliquey on Sept 7, 2014 9:11:57 GMT -5
I was watching a little 3 minute video about Handler describing the series and he says that Markson's traits will start to rub-off on Lemony; which I don't get; they are diametrically opposed; from his youth to adulthood. i don't know what he meant. I'm sure Theodora has used "a phrase which here means" on at least one occasion in ?1. It really stood out to me when I first read it, and I don't think the phrase is well suited to speech, although I love it when Snicket uses it in ASOUE. When was the video recorded? If Handler was writing ?3 at the time, then it could foreshadow something that we've not yet seen. Do you have a link to the video? Was it discussing ?3 or any of the other books in particular? She may be 52nd out of 52 but I feel she must have a talent somewhere; besides managing to steal a cup of tea without the drinker knowing. When I re-read ?1, the first chapter seemed a bit anomalous: I don't think there's anything in there at all to indicate Theodora is the incompetent character we think of her as. On the contrary, the message and tea stealing seemed to fit in well with the rest of V.F.D., with all the poetry or fortune cookie messages, literary locked doors, picnic paranoia and other unnecessarily secretive behaviour.
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Post by Dante on Sept 7, 2014 10:43:19 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the reference to Theodora's traits eventually rubbing off on Lemony was in reference to things like the use of "a phrase which here means." It's come up in interviews more than once since the series started, to my recollection.
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Post by Hermes on Sept 7, 2014 11:44:42 GMT -5
But wasn't 'a phrase which here means' established in TUA as an expression frequently used in VFD?
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Post by Agathological on Sept 7, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -5
She's still a great character; I'd hate for her to be the murderee in number 4. I hope in this next instalment we get a full picture of her; rather than just her in the shadows or her from the back.
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Post by Hermes on Sept 7, 2014 11:57:08 GMT -5
Oh gosh: her being the murderee in book 4 would make sense on the 'Sunny' theory, though, wouldn't it?
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Post by Agathological on Sept 7, 2014 12:12:15 GMT -5
But what is her connection to the Baudelaires?
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Post by Hermes on Sept 7, 2014 12:33:17 GMT -5
Who can say? Perhaps Beatrice turns up in the last book and is impressed by her noble death. Or something.
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Post by Agathological on Sept 7, 2014 12:34:23 GMT -5
I personally believe she turns into the Woman with hair but no beard.
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Post by gliquey on Sept 7, 2014 13:06:46 GMT -5
If the S stands for Sunny, then it doesn't necessarily mean Sunny Baudelaire was directly named after Theodora. If V.F.D. have a long-running tradition of naming babies after people who are dead, then there might be a few Sunnys around. And if Theodora dies in ?4, then it's a bit of a long time period between her dying and Sunny being born - you would think Beatrice or Bertrand would have a closer friend who died more recently to name their child after, especially since it's not established that either of them know Theodora. I do really like the idea that the S stands for Sunny. Sometimes that's how the books go - you might be reminded of something, but that's all it's there for. It doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means, but Handler's intending to make you think of it. I personally believe she turns into the Woman with hair but no beard. I don't really like that idea. We think of the woman and the man as a pair, but would have to find the man somewhere else - I don't like to imagine them at a point in which they weren't cohorts. It also takes away any aura of menace they had after TPP, and I don't think Theodora would turn into a villain. She's the ATWQ version of Mr. Poe - stupid, but (mostly) well-meaning.
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Post by Hermes on Sept 7, 2014 13:21:51 GMT -5
If the S stands for Sunny, then it doesn't necessarily mean Sunny Baudelaire was directly named after Theodora. If V.F.D. have a long-running tradition of naming babies after people who are dead, then there might be a few Sunnys around. True. That has always been my explanation of the two Gustavs, of whom obviously neither was called after the other. On the other hand, if her name is actually to be revealed in the course of the series, and have an impact, one might think the connection would have to be closer. She is actually called 'the woman with the hair' at one point, but certainly her character would have to change rather radically to make it work.
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Post by Dante on Sept 7, 2014 15:10:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure about Theodora as the eventual murder victim as I'm not sure it really reveals anything about the town's secret if she gets murdered. Ideally the motive would be something more mysterious than "she got too close to the truth."
And Hermes, I agree about the "a phrase which here means" thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Lemony has to like it, just that someone caused him to get used to it... perhaps. I'd really have to see the original interview quote.
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Post by gliquey on Sept 7, 2014 16:07:24 GMT -5
And Hermes, I agree about the "a phrase which here means" thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Lemony has to like it, just that someone caused him to get used to it... perhaps. I'd really have to see the original interview quote. That reminded me of ''This Be The Verse'' by Philip Larkin, which Olaf quotes in TE. I won't post the whole thing - Google it if you've not read all three verses before. ''They [potato] you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you.'' While Theodora, of course, isn't Lemony's mum or dad, the point is that any adult will affect a child's behaviour. Lemony is past the point where he absorbs adult's opinions like a sponge, and he knows that Theodora isn't a particularly good role model, but that doesn't mean he won't find a few traits in her that begins to adopt - either consciously, or not. Although, on the other hand, Theodora wasn't around much in ?2 and was even absent, remarkably, for most of ?1. Unless she starts actually helping Lemony - or vice versa, and they manage to co-operate rather than her short appearances between the kids doing detective work, she won't have much opportunity to potato Lemony up. But there's got to be more to her than dodgy hair and mysterious initials. She did steal the tea, so maybe she's good at physical tricks rather than mental crime solving skills.
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Post by M David Steel on Sept 8, 2014 15:37:31 GMT -5
I know there was C.M Kornbluth whose initials were unknown to everyone, but is S really a secretive type, or is it just like if a kid asked his teacher what their first name was sort of thing, so she won't tell him. She won't tell zada/zora when asked because Lemonys standing next to her.
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Post by Dante on Sept 8, 2014 15:49:14 GMT -5
The latter strikes me as very likely. It's a matter of pride.
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