Widdershins was an enemy or a friend of Lemony?

[facelesscreature]

Created this thread to discuss theories about Captain Widdershins and Fernald. Here goes:

In TGG, the characters mention the ichnologist, Gregor Anwhistle. We know that Anwhistle Aquatics was destroyed years ago. It is unclear when, but here is a complex theory I have.

Page 97 of TSS suggests that Lemony Snicket helped Widdershins with the construction of his submarine. He also says that they are comrades.
Page 311 of TGG implies that Gregor Anwhistle is old. Pages 160-161 of TGG says that Gregor Anwhistle was involved with the Schism. Page 310 of TGG implies that Widdershins helped destroy Anwhistle Aquatics and trusted his step-son (Fernald) for many years.
When Widdershins is telling the Baudelaires about his previous crew, he never gets to mention Fernald. However, we know that Fernald was once on his crew before running away to join Olaf. This implies that Fernald was on Widdershins crew sometime after Lemony left the crew. This would mean that Widdershins and Fernald were both volunteers at some point.
Based on the information given on pages 216-221 of TGG, we know that Fernald ran away when Widdershins started ordering Fernald around. However, it is unclear if Widdershins joined Olaf's troupe too.
If he did, this would explain why he "trusted" Fernald for many years and possibly why he helped destroy Anwhistle Aquatics. This would mean that Widdershins was a villain at some point before becoming a volunteer again. So, here's my thoughts:

Widdershins was a volunteer when he was young. He and Lemony were friends until Lemony was "presumed dead." It is unclear if he knew the truth regarding Lemony's death; however TGG suggests that he convinced many volunteers, including Beatrice, that he was dead. After this happened, Widdershins became a changed person. He started to become a villain himself and became the reason why Fernald joined Olaf's troupe. However, I think he joined Olaf as well and helped them destroy Anwhistle Aquatics. When Widdershins, Fernald and Olaf were burning it down, Widdershins and Fernald both realized the villainous thing they had done. I believe that Gregor Anwhistle was (possibly) inside when the fire started and he screamed for help. Widdershins ran from the destruction and Fernald ran inside to save Gregor. Something unfortunate happened during the destruction, and Fernald lost his hands trying to save Gregor. Once Fernald realized that Widdershins abandoned him again, Olaf was the only person who would accept him, now that he was handless. At some point shortly after, Fernald got hooks attached to him and continued to stay with Olaf for years.

Also, it is unclear how old Fernald was when this happened; however, we know from TGG that he was a teenager when Fiona was an infant. I'm guessing that him and Widdershins joined Olaf around this time and stayed with him for years before Widdershins decided to be a volunteer again.

What do you think?

[Dante]

On TGG page 99, Widdershins states that Kit helped to build the submarine. She may be the comrade referred to in TSS by Lemony, or it might be Widdershins, but I have a feeling Lemony refers to his fellow volunteers as "comrades" a lot, so it doesn't necessarily imply a special relationship. As such, I'm not confident of that point in your theory. Similarly, Widdershins joining Olaf's troupe isn't really suggested anywhere in the text, and I'm not sure that he would have left his wife and stepdaughter to join Olaf (though I suppose Mrs. Widdershins's previous husband also left her and their daughter).

[facelesscreature]

That's true. However, page 310 does suggest that Widdershins helped destroy Anwhistle Aquatics and that he trusted Fernald for many years. If Widdershins wasn't a villain at some point, then what could Lemony be suggesting?

My theory is that Widdershins was a volunteer, then became a villain, and eventually a volunteer again. After all, in TGG, when Fernald is reunited with Fiona, the story suggests in TPP that he became a volunteer again.
Also, Lemony seems to reference something from his past to help describe the current events that is happening to the characters in every book.

[Dante]

Jun 3, 2014 16:37:34 GMT -5 facelesscreature said:

That's true. However, page 310 does suggest that Widdershins helped destroy Anwhistle Aquatics and that he trusted Fernald for many years. If Widdershins wasn't a villain at some point, then what could Lemony be suggesting?

That Widdershins loved his family so much that it blinded him to their flaws? There's evidence in the white-faced women and Fernald's backstories in TSS and TGG that Olaf's troupe wasn't originally an evil group, but even if it was, there's no contradiction with Widdershins still trusting his stepson from outside of the troupe. When Fernald mentions in Chapter Ten of TGG having run away to join Olaf's troupe, also, he specifically says that he did so to get away from Widdershins.

[Hermes]

We should bear in mind that there was actually a defensible reason for burning down AA: Gregor was developing a dangerous fungus there, something Kit had warned him about. So it's possible that the young Fernald was actually acting from idealistic motives, and had persuaded Widdershins to join him for that reason. The problem is that by doing so, he was doing the same as Gregor had done before him, fighting fire with fire.

I would take it that he joined Olaf after this - perhaps he was punished by VFD for taking part in the burning, and this led to him losing faith in the good side and throwing in his lot with the villains. It's clear that he is very disillusioned with VFD and thinks there is no difference between the sides, and I get the impression this arises out of a personal experience.

(PS Sophie - are you Charlie in disguise?)

[M David Steel]

It has turned out widdershins used his submarine at least for twenty years. He does mention that jaques brother (lemony) was one of his two crew members, which went through a number of changes. I don't agree that Widdershins was ever a villain or with Olaf because he makes it clear how some things are too bad for anyone to know, and he speaks of Olaf as a foe.

Lemony must have been presumed dead for sixteen years perhaps? as Bertrand had said he and beatrices' first child would be named Lemony if it was a boy - and they named all of them after people who had died.

I do agree that both fernald and white-faced women were given their injuries in fires and because of how they looked after, they joined Olaf, because he didn't care about how anyone looked, long as they would help him.

[Hermes]

Lemony says something in The End which implies that his death has been reported many times. So while he was certainly thought dead at the time of Violet's birth, I don't think he stayed reported dead for fifteen years. Indeed, one can argue that Beatrice must have found out he was alive before Klaus was born (possibly by receiving the the telegram in TBL), or else Klaus would be called Lemony.

We know Kit thinks he's dead at the time of The End: and the report of his death in TUA, when he's already well-known as the author of ASOUE, would seem to be a third. It's also possible he had a funeral when Violet was a child (from the report of the Baudelaire parents, dressed in black, singing 'The Little Snicket Lad').