Is Captain Widdershins Friday's father?

[fangirlinthetardis]

Ok. I know it does sound kind of crazy but think about it:

-Captain Widdershins claimed that Fernald and Fiona's mother died in a manatee accident. Fiona was suspicious.

Miranda claimed that Friday's father died in a manatee accident. Friday was naïve as she lived on the island.

-Friday's father, Thursday's last name was never given (it was never confirmed that Caliban was his surname).

Captain Widdershin's first name was never given.

-The children's names all begin with F- Fernald, Fiona and Friday.

-Widdershins was a volunteer. Miranda was presumably a volunteer as she was presumably the sister of Olivia Caliban (Madame LuLu). Widdershins knew Olivia (he taught her coded stains on a map) so he probably knew Miranda.

-Kit tells the Baudalaires that she met up with Widdershins and she mentions to the islanders that she recently met up with Thursday.

-Thursday left the island after Ishamel made it boring. To me, that sounds like something Widdershins would do ("He who hesitates is lost", remember),

I think this happened- Widdershins met Miranda after she just had Fernald and Fiona. When F and F were taken away for that V.F.D training or something, Miranda and Widdershins washed up on the island and helped the Baudalaire parents. When Ishamel came along, Widderhins left the island without Miranda, as they had argued about staying or leaving, Miranda wanting to stay as she, unknowingly to Widdershins, was pregnant with Friday and wanted to shelter her from the treacheries of the world. Being angry with each others choice, Miranda changed back to her maiden name and both parents resolved to telling F, F and F that their mother/father died in a manatee accident so they would never know about the schism that divided their parents ( in TE it is mentioned that a schism divided Miranda and Thursday). 

Please tell me what you think of this theory!

[A comet crashing into Earth]

That, or at least something along the same lines, sounds very plausible to me. Considering the 'manatee accident' excuse is used twice, there's definitely an intentional connection. The point that Friday's first initial matches Fernald and Fiona's also seems like a good clue, since matching initials and alliterations are often used to mark connections in Snicket's universe. It's been a long while since I read either TGG or TE, so I don't have anything to add off the top of my head, but I think you're on to something there. It's nice that after such a long time, there's still details like this in the books that I haven't noticed yet.

Also, it's always nice to see another Whovian aboard 667 - welcome!  

[Hermes]

Hi fangirl. We've had theories like this before, but I think yours is the best version of it I've seen.

I'm fairly sure we are meant to think something like this when we first meet Friday; since VFD families normally have children in threes, a girl whose name begins with F looks like a big clue, and the reference to a manatee adds to the impression. At first it looks quite possible that Friday's parents were separated in an incident involving a manatee, and each concluded that the other was dead. Then we discover that in fact her father was not dead and had left the island; that seems to ruin the theory, but your suggestion that the captain was also making up the manatee story gets round that.

I think, though, that there's one thing that still doesn't fit. In the list of things the captain was wrong about in TGG, we are told that he was wrong to think his wife died in a manatee accident. It's not clear whether this means she wasn't dead, or it wasn't an accident, but at least it shows he did think this. (You could get round this by saying Lemony himself is trying to conceal the truth at that point, since DH has said that Lemony is an unreliable narrator; but that turns it into a rather different sort of theory.)

I prefer to think of it as a matter of parallel stories, like the ones Ishmael and Olaf later tell, which seem to be part of the Baudelaires' story, but turn out to be something different. There's certainly a parallel between Fiona and Friday, because both desert the Baudelaires out of loyalty to their family.

[fangirlinthetardis]

Jul 26, 2015 9:16:58 GMT -5 Hermes said:

Hi fangirl. We've had theories like this before, but I think yours is the best version of it I've seen.

I'm fairly sure we are meant to think something like this when we first meet Friday; since VFD families normally have children in threes, a girl whose name begins with F looks like a big clue, and the reference to a manatee adds to the impression. At first it looks quite possible that Friday's parents were separated in an incident involving a manatee, and each concluded that the other was dead. Then we discover that in fact her father was not dead and had left the island; that seems to ruin the theory, but your suggestion that the captain was also making up the manatee story gets round that.

I think, though, that there's one thing that still doesn't fit. In the list of things the captain was wrong about in TGG, we are told that he was wrong to think his wife died in a manatee accident. It's not clear whether this means she wasn't dead, or it wasn't an accident, but at least it shows he did think this. (You could get round this by saying Lemony himself is trying to conceal the truth at that point, since DH has said that Lemony is an unreliable narrator; but that turns it into a rather different sort of theory.)

I prefer to think of it as a matter of parallel stories, like the ones Ishmael and Olaf later tell, which seem to be part of the Baudelaires' story, but turn out to be something different. There's certainly a parallel between Fiona and Friday, because both desert the Baudelaires out of loyalty to their family.

Thanks, Hermes. I hadn't thought about that. But, even though we do know LS is an unreliable narrator, my theory for that is this:

We all know what kind of a man Widdershins is, so maybe he actually convinced himself, after trying to convince F and F for years, that Miranda was dead.

 Or, maybe there was an accident with a manatee which Miranda was involved in but survived, unknown to Widdershins, who believed she was dead. Perhaps this was a reason, unknown to Miranda(who still knew he thought her dead, paralleling to Beatrice thinking Lemony was dead), for him leaving the island,(Only Miranda mentioned the schism dividing Friday's parents so if my theory is correct Miranda thinks that the schism was the only reason for him leaving) and Miranda, hating him for leaving her, when Friday asked, said that he died in a manatee accident, as her own personal inside joke (maybe known to the other islanders).

That, or LS is just being unreliable.

[Dante]

It's worth remembering that Fiona seems to have been present for the manatee accident; in fact, it's clear that Fiona, and her brother, lived on the Queequeg for many years, and with Widdershins's wife as the official second in the Crew of Two, whatever incident she was involved in it seems likely Fiona would have witnessed. Now, what's Fiona's statement on the manatee accident? She says, "I'm not so sure it was an accident." This indicates that Fiona has quite a bit of knowledge about the accident, has her own opinion about it, and doesn't question either the fact that her mother died or that a manatee was involved.

I think Hermes has slightly misrecalled the later statement on Widdershins's thoughts about the manatee accident, which are as follows: "He was wrong about his wife's death, because as Fiona suspected, Mrs. Widdershins did not die in a manatee accident." This statement is actually contradictory; the last part implies that Mrs. Widdershins did not die, which is very different from Fiona's suspicions. It also suggests, though, that Fiona's suspicions are broadly correct, which strengthens the idea of Fiona as a witness.

All told, I'm not sure what Mr. Handler's intention was, but I don't think we can make a definite statement for or against; there are a couple of things that line up, quite a few that don't, and we're looking at an author with form on changing the overarching plot on a book-by-book basis. There may not be a single unifying truth.

[fangirlinthetardis]

Jul 26, 2015 13:44:47 GMT -5 Dante said:

It's worth remembering that Fiona seems to have been present for the manatee accident; in fact, it's clear that Fiona, and her brother, lived on the Queequeg for many years, and with Widdershins's wife as the official second in the Crew of Two, whatever incident she was involved in it seems likely Fiona would have witnessed. Now, what's Fiona's statement on the manatee accident? She says, "I'm not so sure it was an accident." This indicates that Fiona has quite a bit of knowledge about the accident, has her own opinion about it, and doesn't question either the fact that her mother died or that a manatee was involved.

I think Hermes has slightly misrecalled the later statement on Widdershins's thoughts about the manatee accident, which are as follows: "He was wrong about his wife's death, because as Fiona suspected, Mrs. Widdershins did not die in a manatee accident." This statement is actually contradictory; the last part implies that Mrs. Widdershins did not die, which is very different from Fiona's suspicions. It also suggests, though, that Fiona's suspicions are broadly correct, which strengthens the idea of Fiona as a witness.

All told, I'm not sure what Mr. Handler's intention was, but I don't think we can make a definite statement for or against; there are a couple of things that line up, quite a few that don't, and we're looking at an author with form on changing the overarching plot on a book-by-book basis. There may not be a single unifying truth.

Thanks for your feedback. But, what if F and F weren't present for the attack? My original theory was that it happened on the island while F and F were at their VFD training, and, because of her training, Fiona would have definitely found this suspicious. They (W, M, F and F would have spent years on the QueeQueg (up until Fiona was 5, maybe). As for Mrs Widdershins, it seems likely that Miranda would have gone back to her maiden name when she assumed Widdershins left her solely because of the island schism.

Or, maybe "manatee accident" is VFD code for someone dying without knowing how they died, so the phrase "Mrs Widdershins did not die in a manatee accident" means "Mrs Widdershins is alive".

Or maybe Widdershins told everyone in VFD that Miranda died in a manatee accident (instead of the schism) so Lemony discovered that Miranda was alive but did not discover that Widdershins was lying.

That's just what I think.

[sundust]

I thought that Fiona and Ferdinand were captain widdershins step-children. Maybe they were not around when the schism happened.

[colette]

English is not my mothertounge and I've read ASoUE in translation so I can interprent several statements wrong. I always assumed that Fernald and Fiona's mother died just not by accident and was murdered instead(possibly by Sinister Duo whom I suspect own Great Unknown). I also always assumed that Caliban is Miranda's married name because she is reffered as Mrs Caliban.

In my headcanon:
1. Olivia and Miranda are sisters-in-law. Both of them have one brother(Olivia's is Thursday) and neither of them ever had a sister.
2. Miranda is actually younger than Fernald and was of infertile age when Fiona was born. I don't know if it contradicts the canon. If Friday is Miranda's first and only child( she is in my headcanon), I guess that it's possible that she is very young woman.
3. Mrs Widdershins actually died but not by accident.
4. Thursday and Captain Widdershins are separate individuals.

I don't know if my headcanon contradicts canon. Just my headcanon.
3. Fiona's mom died but not in the accident