Charles in The Penultimate Peril

[L Lawliet]

I was rereading TPP recently to find information unrelated to this post when I saw Kit mention a Charles as seen at the bottom of page 33, " I've scarcely looked at these maps, poems, and blueprints that Charles sent me [...]". I remember looking at " The Snicket Family Tree And all Related Families" and seeing that Kit (also lemony and Jacques) have a grand father names Charles. I also thought of the Charles from TMM that we also see in this same book. Perhaps I am just missing something but this is of an interest to me which it could be.


-L


 Discuss:

[A comet crashing into Earth]

I always presumed this was the same Charles as the one from TMM, but for some reason I've never considered him and Charles Snicket being namesakes. Thanks for pointing it out!

[lorelai]

I've always thought Charles was TMM's Charles too. If he is named after Charles Snicket, that might somewhat explain Lemony's reference to him in TBL--he's a relation.

[Invisible]

That's my theory, too. I see Charles being part of the Snicket family tree.

[Dante]

It's worth noting that the character named in the U.A. was actually Chas. Snicket, which is slightly different from Charles, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to link him and TMM's Charles (though Chas. is literally just a name and doesn't appear anywhere else). The allusion in TPP does seem to indicate that Sir's partner Charles is an acquaintance of Kit's and possible member of V.F.D., though it's unclear how this fits with his later discussion with Sir about the organisation. Perhaps he's a little like Jerome, who was also a friend of several volunteers without knowing about the organisation himself.

[Hermes]

If we think Chas is short for Charles, we may suppose our Charles was called after him, on the 'named after someone dead' principle.

As for whether he is a member of VFD, it's notable that Dewey seems deliberately obscure about this; he makes it clear that Hal, Strauss and Jerome are recent recruits, but when the children ask 'what about Charles?' replies 'Charles cares about you'.

Of course, we now know of a way in which someone may be sort of a member of VFD, but not exactly.

L and B certainly knew Charles in their youth, but as Jerome shows, that doesn't prove he's a volunteer.

(In my headcanon Charles is Esme's brother. This doesn't help, as it's equally mysterious whether E was a member.)

[veryfakedonkey]

Three ideas: Charles that sent Kit maps is Charles Baudelaire, Handler's inspiration for the name and for Beatrice (one of his poems) and Charles Baudelaire is the Baudelaire orphan's grandfather, or Charles from TMM is Charles Baudelaire, and not a grandfather, or a completely different an uncanon person.

[Uncle Algernon]

Jan 11, 2016 20:14:00 GMT -5 veryfakedonkey said:

Three ideas: Charles that sent Kit maps is Charles Baudelaire, Handler's inspiration for the name and for Beatrice (one of his poems) and Charles Baudelaire is the Baudelaire orphan's grandfather,

Charles Baudelaire died in 1867. How do you propose to resolve that liiiiitle timeline issue you have there? Just when the Series takes place is admittedly ambiguous, but it would take place at the very dawn of the 20th century if even that for Charles Baudelaire to possibly be Beatrice or Bertrand (depending on which was the original Baudelaire of the two; there's some debate)'s father. The earliest I've ever seen the series put in anyone's headcanon is in the 1930's, and the 1950's at least seems to be a more conservative option. 

(All this overlooking the fact that Baudelaire never actually did have children to carry his name.)

[Dante]

On THH page 37, Snicket implies that he personally knows the playwright William Congreve, who died in 1729. ASoUE has no time period.

[Uncle Algernon]

Jun 16, 2018 4:10:11 GMT -5 Dante said:

On THH page 37, Snicket implies that he personally knows the playwright William Congreve,

You know, I never ever saw the implication in that line. All he says is that "an associate of mine named William Congreve once wrote a very sad play…". How, especially considering the up-front weirdness of the timeline involved, would you conclude Lemony personally knew Congreve? I just took it to mean that across time and space Lemony would consider any fellow writer an "associate", or, if you want to read something more into it, that the Averse's Congreve was a historical member of V.F.D.

It's one thing that the Averse is a bit of an anachronistic pot-roast, but 18th century real-world people are a bit too conspicuously blatant, I think. 

[Hermes]

I would take it that 'associate' here just means a member of VFD.

But it seems unlikely that this is the Baudelaires' grandfather, in any case, because if he were alive would he not have offered to become their guardian? I think it's natural to suppose that this Charles is the one we know, Sir's partner, given that he appears later in the book, and clearly is taking an interest in the Baudelaires' affairs.