how did olaf become a count

[Sophie Baudelaire]

or was he one at all
and if not why did people call him that


jw

[lorelai]

The answer that sprang to my mind is that he was born one, and used the title after his parents died. Since counts are pretty low on the royal food chain--certainly in fiction if not in reality--any family money could have reasonabbly been blown through by the start of ASOUE, and if Olaf did ever fool people into believing he was a count for some scheme, I can't believe either he wouldn't have gloated about it or Lemony wouldn't have brought it up.
Also, in the 3rd ATWQ book, we're told Wade Academy normally only admitted the children of "dukes, earls, counts, that sort of thing" (page 102), and later, Ellington says she saw graffiti "from the daughters of earls and the sons of counts" and Olaf is mentioned three words after that statement (SYBIS 291).

[Tryina Denouement]

Yeah, I'm in the belief that he inherited it from his parents, but he was broke because of some financial disaster or something.

[Dante]

There's never been any indication that his title is anything but legitimate, but it seems unlikely that he personally would have been granted a title by the reigning royal power of whatever country ASoUE takes place in. (Maybe some other small, corrupt nation, perhaps.) But the explanation that requires the least assumptions is that he inherited it - see also the case of the Duchess of Winnipeg, who came into her title during The Beatrice Letters. You might well draw a parallel to Olaf inheriting his title from his own deceased parents - perhaps explaining why nobody calls him a "count" in backstory material.

I believe that, in the very early days, people occasionally mooted that there might have been a "real Count Olaf" whom our Olaf is impersonating; that would have been an interesting twist, but subsequent information related to Olaf's childhood renders it improbable.

[Hermes]

'Count' is a continental title rather than a British one, so even in a world where North America has titles like 'Duchess of Winnipeg', it seems unlikely it would have counts. I'd guess it was an old European title his family brought over with them. People do sometimes use old titles in this way.

Simply from his title, we can't even tell that he had a wealthy upbringing, but it does seem likely that he did, if he attended Wade Academy at one point.

[Linda Rhaldeen]

Everything I know about aristocracy I know from Downton Abbey, lol; Lord Grantham was an earl which I think is the equivalent of a count? Because they called Lady Grantham a countess instead of an earless as her official title (and who can blame them? Earless sounds like she is missing her ears). Anyway, throughout the series a lot of the other aristocratic families make poor financial decisions and lose all their money, ending up having to sell their homes and land and such. Presumably this is what happened in Olaf's family.

[bear]

Jun 24, 2016 18:29:11 GMT -5 Linda Rhaldeen said:

Downtown Abbey

cruisin' downtown with my summer fling, Abbey

[Linda Rhaldeen]

Autocorrect strikes again.

[lorelai]

According to a Google search, an earl and count are the same thing; count is just the title used in nonEnglish-speaking countries.

[Hermes]

That's right: as different countries have different systems, it's hard to say whether ranks in two different countries are exactly the same, but 'count' is generally considered the same as 'earl'. In the middle ages the same people who were called 'earl' in English were called 'comte' (i.e. count) in Norman French ('le comte de Warwick', etc.).

By the way, one of my Ph. D examiners was a peer (not an earl, though, just a baron). This is because his father was in the Labour government in the 1940's, and got given a peerage; in those days all peerages were hereditary, so in due course it passed to his son. I don't think he was particularly rich; he lived the normal life of a university professor.

[gliquey]

Jun 24, 2016 15:29:50 GMT -5 Hermes said:

'Count' is a continental title rather than a British one, so even in a world where North America has titles like 'Duchess of Winnipeg', it seems unlikely it would have counts. I'd guess it was an old European title his family brought over with them. People do sometimes use old titles in this way.

I don't think that ASOUE has to be set in North America, and from what I can tell 'Duchess' and 'Count' are both European titles used in roughly the same countries. Based off what Jerome says to the children about xenophobia in TEE, I'd say the series is not set in North America, Europe or Asia (leaving Australia and parts of Africa as English-speaking countries it could be). But this conflicts with the European idea of peerages, and of course Winnipeg is in Canada, so I think the location of the series is too ambiguous to base ideas about Olaf's roots on.

[Hermes]

Well, I think there are lots of indications of North America - the Duchess of Winnipeg, the King of Arizona, the picture of young Daniel in San Francisco, 'Fire Department', the meaning of 'Prep', and so on. What Jerome says can be accommodated by putting it on an offshore island. (Perhaps it Exited North America a few years before the series.)

But in any case, it's an English-speaking country, and 'Count' is not a historic English title - it may be that every other country that has dukes also has counts, but the English speaking countries don't. So I still think it's a titled brought over by his family form the old world. (Though I suppose you might say it's a French title from Quebec or a Dutch title from South Africa; even if such things didn't exist in the real world, they are no odder than a Duchess of Winnipeg.)

[Seymour Glass]

I have a theory that Count might actually be his first name. Some people have titles as first names, such as Duke or Earl or Queen. Michael Jackson's sons' are both named Prince.

[bear]

Jun 23, 2016 19:23:09 GMT -5 Sophie Baudelaire said:

or was he one at all
and if not why did people call him that


jw

why would he get the count title just because he's a jehovah's witness?

[lorelai]

May 19, 2017 18:42:30 GMT -5 Seymour Glass said:

I have a theory that Count might actually be his first name. Some people have titles as first names, such as Duke or Earl or Queen. Michael Jackson's sons' are both named Prince.

Way too many people, both his enimies and allies including Esme and the villainous duo (who are his equal and superiors respectively) call him Olaf for that to work for me. No one ever just calls him Count.