teslak20
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 27
Likes: 36
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Post by teslak20 on Jan 11, 2018 6:37:14 GMT -5
The Quagmire Parents red herring was a brilliant way to lead on viewers who had not read the books, or not read beyond the first few books. These people naturally expect that in a family-friendly show, the parents will be revealed to be secretly alive. It was an awesome way to "splash a bucket of cold water on their face" and awaken them to the fact that there really are no happy endings here, and that ASOUE is not like other shows.
I, when watching, immediately saw this as a parallel of the "other survivor of the fire" twist from the books with Quigley Quagmire, and indeed I was later proven right.
However, this begs the question of how this important plot twist will be handled in the series. While the Quagmire Parents had no real significance beyond trolling newcomers (and introducing the Quagmire family in the first season), Quigley is a major character and his arc cannot be cut out. On the other hand, it cannot be adapted verbatim because it would have no significance anymore: the viewers won't be fooled for a minute, and it will come across as stupid plotting.
What will they do?
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Post by Dante on Jan 11, 2018 7:26:07 GMT -5
This point has been discussed before, and I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Season 1's parental survivor plotline was so close a parallel to the Quigley subplot as to be effectively identical: They spend several books setting up what looks like the possibility of the/a Baudelaire parent/s surviving, but then it turns out to be the/a Quagmire/s, despite this not actually fitting all of the hints. I have a hard time seeing how they can run exactly the same subplot twice.
My own suggestion would be: Tweak the Quigley subplot. It never made any sense in the books that he had anything to do with the last page of the Snicket File (not that that last page is even presented consistently; whether the line of text appears above the photograph or below it as a caption alternates every single time it appears), so cut that idea. Instead, have cutaways with Quigley (and Jacques) throughout the season, but either don't show Quigley's face properly or try to trick the viewers into thinking it's a flashforward and that he's actually Duncan. Amend the line revealing his identity in TSS to something more general, like "The only survivor here is me." Give the Baudelaires their false Snicket File hope all the way up until The End, which is the point at which they give up on their parents being alive anyway. Show the page blowing away in the wind and being lost at sea to emphasise the point.
Basically, so long as the Quigley reveal in TSS doesn't appear to be the culmination of the Snicket File subplot, they should be okay.
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Post by mizbizsav on Jan 11, 2018 15:46:02 GMT -5
I'm glad you posted this because I just finished rewatching the first season and wondered about the same thing. I think it was very clever how they incorporated the parents twist in the first season - it managed to fool newcomers and old readers alike. However, I hate that it may potentially replace the Snicket file, which is important to the plot of books 8-10. (And, as Dante said, carries on in themes until the last book, when the Baudelaires accept that their parents are never coming back.) Will they just change the contents of the Snicket file? What will be Madame Lulu's role in The Carnivorous Carnival if the Snicket file is changed? Will the Baudelaires still go through their emotional arc of desperately believing that their parents are alive? As good as it was to lead on the audience, it is far more important to both the story and the characters to lead on the actual players in the story.
I actually worry about several future storylines - some of my favorite parts - becoming redundant. The Baudelaires snuck away on their own at the end of The Wide Window and became the "self-sufficient" Baudelaires in The Miserable Mill. You can see at the end of those episodes that they have already given up hope on the adults and Mr. Poe. However, in the books they don't reach that point until the end of The Vile Village in one of the most poignant scenes in the entire series. They can keep that moment, but it will not feel the same. (Also, from the teaser it seems like they will have Sunny walking on her own earlier, too, another important factor in the TVV scene.) Another thing that TMM brings: questioning the morality of the Baudelaire parents. The Baudelaires confront this possibility with the Paltryville fire, even if they adamantly say they have to clear their parents' names. Of course, this happens in The Penultimate Peril when Olaf's past and the Baudelaire's past merge. Again, I hope this later revelation does not feel redundant because it is one of the most important ones in the entire series.
I know the writers must have already thought all of this out when planning the seasons - that is their job. However, it is hard not to be a little worried when it involves some of the most crucial moments in the series!
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takatoguil
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 64
Likes: 40
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Post by takatoguil on Jan 11, 2018 19:00:35 GMT -5
One thing to note is the differing circumstances of season 1 and those later plot lines - the Baudelaires in The Vile Village don't run away on their own but because they have no choice. Their first act in THH is to try and get in touch with Mr. Poe in the hopes that despite everything he still might be able to help them. They reject him the next time they see him, but only because they feel another adult will help them more. Since in the show's TMM their attempts to become self-sufficient crashed and burned so horribly, the show might be able to spin the end of TVVP2 as them worrying about being able to survive after their previous flirtation with independence and Sunny's mobility (first steps or no) being reassurance that they've grown since then and have more skills. With their parents, they may well remember Paltryville's claims and try to dismiss Olaf as simply another villain dragging their parents through the mud until forced to face the fact that yes, their parents were murderers and thieves and who knows what else.
With the Snicket file, one option would be for the file to outright suggest the existence of the Mortmain VFD base as being a rumored safe haven for survivors of suspicious fires, giving the Baudelaires an explicitly thin hope and a goal, with Olivia providing the necessary map to find the safe haven instead of traipsing across the mountains blind and Quigley's reveal being simply that he is a Quagmire.
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Post by varcofulitodarcia on Jan 12, 2018 0:54:24 GMT -5
This point has been discussed before, and I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Season 1's parental survivor plotline was so close a parallel to the Quigley subplot as to be effectively identical: They spend several books setting up what looks like the possibility of the/a Baudelaire parent/s surviving, but then it turns out to be the/a Quagmire/s, despite this not actually fitting all of the hints. I have a hard time seeing how they can run exactly the same subplot twice. My own suggestion would be: Tweak the Quigley subplot. It never made any sense in the books that he had anything to do with the last page of the Snicket File (not that that last page is even presented consistently; whether the line of text appears above the photograph or below it as a caption alternates every single time it appears), so cut that idea. Instead, have cutaways with Quigley (and Jacques) throughout the season, but either don't show Quigley's face properly or try to trick the viewers into thinking it's a flashforward and that he's actually Duncan. Amend the line revealing his identity in TSS to something more general, like "The only survivor here is me." Give the Baudelaires their false Snicket File hope all the way up until The End, which is the point at which they give up on their parents being alive anyway. Show the page blowing away in the wind and being lost at sea to emphasise the point. Basically, so long as the Quigley reveal in TSS doesn't appear to be the culmination of the Snicket File subplot, they should be okay. There's a BRILLIANT analysis on tumblr that basically says the Snicket File was never talking about Quigley at all. It was talking about Beatrice. Short version is that Snicket states that the Baudelaire fire happened in the morning but that his beloved Beatrice died in the afternoon (and of course we all know Beatrice = Mrs. Beatrice). He also says in The Austere Academy that Beatrice and him attended the Dutchess of Winnipeg's masked ball even though The Unauthorized Autobiography clearly states that the masked ball happened after the events of The Reptile Room since Monty's death and the missing reptiles are brought up. Also canon that R.'s palace where the ball took place burned down shortly thereafter. Then in The Hospital Hospital one of the anagrammed names on the list while searching for the Violet anagram is Beatrice Baudelaire. And as we know, the hospital gets burned down by the end of the book (which is the afternoon). So the theory states that there indeed was a survivor of the Baudelaire fire, as the Snicket File implied, and that that survivor was indeed Beatrice. Sadly, she ended up dying in the afternoon in book 8 despite the fact that the Baudelaire fire in book 1 happened in the morning. I think it goes incredibly well with the theme of irony in the novels, particularly since this would mean that the kids were in the same building as their mom for an entire book but didn't even know it. Beatrice had to stay under the radar because Olaf couldn't know she was alive, as that would put the upcoming trial in The Penultimate Peril in jeopardy (it can be assumed Beatrice was going to testify). Point being, Quigley being the survivor of the fire mentioned in the Snicket File never made sense because it wasn't supposed to. It's one of the MANY plot twists in the books that actually happens "behind the scenes" (so to speak) and that readers can only catch if they read carefully. I take no credit for discovering this. It's all snicketsleuth's amazing research. You should definitely check out his/her blog and his/her other theories.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jan 12, 2018 1:17:17 GMT -5
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Post by doetwin on Jan 13, 2018 22:52:51 GMT -5
The biggest difference between the Quagmire parents reveal in season one and the Snicket file reveal in the books is this: the reveal in the show didn’t happen to the Baudelaires, only the viewers. The Baudelaires didn’t think their parents were behind the Very Fancy Door, only we did. So when it turned out to be Dr. Orwell and Count Olaf, the Baudelaires didn’t feel devastated, the audience did. There was absolutely no emotional effect on the Baudelaires by the subplot. I think the Snicket file reveal could be kept, in its entirety, as long as the show focuses on how it affects the Baudelaires. The moment when they discover it’s actually Quigley would be terrible to watch, not because the audience thought the parents might be alive, but because the Baudelaires did and they’re crushed. I completely agree. I think when the Baudelaires discover page 13 of the Snicket file, Warburton should interrupt the show like he often does and say something along the lines of the following: "The Baudelaires automatically assumed that the fire mentioned on the 13th page of the Snicket file was the Baudelaire fire. However, like I mentioned before, making assumptions is dangerous. Each of the Baudelaires now felt hopeful that they might see one of their parents again. As deeply as I wish I could tell you that this was so, the fire that was being referenced here was not the Baudelaire fire." That way, the audience will know that Baudelaires, sooner or later, will experience the same disappointment that the audience members(those who hadn't read the books) did at the end of TMMP1.
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