vfds321s
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 76
Likes: 10
|
Post by vfds321s on Apr 23, 2018 9:56:06 GMT -5
The most obvious suspect would be Olaf but others say is unlikely. Olaf is only one of the villains and there are even worse ones. So if not Olaf then who? This led me to create this poll
|
|
|
|
Post by Uncle Algernon on Apr 23, 2018 12:39:45 GMT -5
I'd have voted "another VFD villain" anyway, but you should probably have added Esmé to the poll. Her rivalry with Beatrice and her determination to gain entry to the passageway make her a prime suspect, and if the fire was indeed lit from the passageway, this would explain why the Baudelaire Parents couldn't escape through it.
Not enough has been made of the fact that (at least in the Netflix series; memory's fuzzy on whether that was already the case in the books… I think so but I wouldn't swear on it) Betrand and Beatrice apparently asked the children to go to Briny Beach at a time where they wouldn't usually have done so. To me, this implies that the Baudelaire Parents wanted the children out of the house for a time… which presumably meant that they were expecting some VFD-related visit they wanted to hide from them. In my opinion, that meeting went — badly, a word which here means the visiting party decided the best way to settle their differents with the Baudelaires was to set their house on fire and leave. Now that person might have been Olaf, but at the least this seems to render a "sneak attack" (either through remote lenswork as in the 2003 film, or through the Passageway as in the theory I cited above) unlikely.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Apr 23, 2018 14:36:06 GMT -5
It sounds like you're recalling the material from The Bad Beginning Rare Edition, which might be worth reviewing as it corresponds to several of your ideas. |
|
vfds321s
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 76
Likes: 10
|
Post by vfds321s on Apr 23, 2018 14:59:38 GMT -5
The reason I didn't put Esme on there because she technically works for Count Olaf and would've done so on his orders (thus making him still responsible), which is why the only member of his troupe I put on the list is the wart faced man (Not just because of irony, but because he appears so little that we don't know much about him or if he is even a member of Olaf's gang. He may have been just an associate of his who Olaf felt no need to use him again).
Also, Esme hates Beatrice, who "stole" from her, not the whole family. The children were just either pawns or a nuisance, depending on which is IN at the time. She could've had many ways to kill her like a surprise attack or a hidden gun shot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Liam R. Findlay on Apr 23, 2018 16:49:38 GMT -5
I voted "Some other VFD Villain we don't know about" because it's the closest option to Violet, Klaus and Sunny, the Baudelaire Butchers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hermes on Apr 24, 2018 9:21:01 GMT -5
There are still plenty of convoluted theories possible where Esme acts independently of Count Olaf to burn down the house. If the goal of your poll is to gauge public opinion on this, it won’t do so accurately without Esme on the list. As Dante argues in another thread, it may be that Esme's connection with Olaf was not renewed until the events of TEE: this has to be so to make sense of what happens with the Quagmires. (It still doesn't make perfect sense, in my view, but to come as close as possible to making sense, at any rate.) But she seems to have been involved in a conspiracy of some sort, if, as TUA implies, she married Jerome in order to get access to the secret passage. However, I have voted for the Sinister Duo, because in The Nameless Novel the picture of the burning Baudelaire mansion illustrates a quote from them, 'fire can solve any problem in the world'. Esme may have been helping them, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Dent on Apr 24, 2018 14:22:58 GMT -5
I like to think it was an accident, but as it isn't an option, my vote goes towards Mr. Poe, who isn't an option either.
|
|
|
|
Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Apr 24, 2018 16:28:17 GMT -5
I agree that these options are a bit unrepresentative. I'm also most convinced of Esmé as the arsonist if not Olaf, although what I'd like most of all is for the fire to truly have been an accident. It seems delightfully ironic that all the misfortune could've been avoided if Beatrice or Bertrand hadn't wanted to use their children's absence to have a cigarette, and it reinforces the theme that despite whether anyone wants it or not, bad things are just going to happen to good people.
I'm also curious why you've picked Ernest and Dr. Orwell in particular, not to mention the Baudelaire parents themselves - are you suggesting a murder/suicide pact or just insurance fraud? Maybe they were actually indebted, and that entire fortune the orphans keep hearing about is the result of Beatrice and Bertrand's life insurance. That actually has a nice irony to it - they sacrifice themselves to ensure their children's financial security, but that just results in Olaf ruining the children's lives instead.
|
|
vfds321s
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 76
Likes: 10
|
Post by vfds321s on Apr 24, 2018 18:09:43 GMT -5
I agree that these options are a bit unrepresentative. I'm also most convinced of Esmé as the arsonist if not Olaf, although what I'd like most of all is for the fire to truly have been an accident. It seems delightfully ironic that all the misfortune could've been avoided if Beatrice or Bertrand hadn't wanted to use their children's absence to have a cigarette, and it reinforces the theme that despite whether anyone wants it or not, bad things are just going to happen to good people. I'm also curious why you've picked Ernest and Dr. Orwell in particular, not to mention the Baudelaire parents themselves - are you suggesting a murder/suicide pact or just insurance fraud? Maybe they were actually indebted, and that entire fortune the orphans keep hearing about is the result of Beatrice and Bertrand's life insurance. That actually has a nice irony to it - they sacrifice themselves to ensure their children's financial security, but that just results in Olaf ruining the children's lives instead. Ernest: Because he is a villain that was shown and can blame it on either Frank or Dewey Dr. Orwell: She collaborated with Olaf in TMM and is also a villain that is shown (Is she from VFD or an associate of the villains side?) You know what? Now I'm not so sure why I put it. They may have done it in the accidental sense. It doesn't have to be suicidal. The theme can still work if there was an arsonist. It would also show that bad people will kill good people and the loved ones of the good people will be affected negatively (not to mention that sometimes, nothng can or will be done to prevent it) |
|
|
|
Post by Uncle Algernon on Apr 25, 2018 4:21:24 GMT -5
Dr. Orwell: She collaborated with Olaf in TMM and is also a villain that is shown (is she from VFD or an associate of the villains side?) In the Netflix Series she is unambiguously a Volunteer in her own right, who was kicked out when her immoral hypnotism was found out by Beatrice Baudelaire. (She is seen in the VFD Headquarters flashback.) |
|
|
|
Post by kingarthur on Apr 26, 2018 2:21:52 GMT -5
I voted for Lemony because he is a suspected arsonist. He tells us that he is innocent in his book, which is very suspicious. Also, he may be angry at Beatrice for leaving him and Bertrand for 'stealing' Beatrice. However, perhaps he later regrets his actions which is why he writes ASOUE.
|
|
|
|
Post by gliquey on Apr 26, 2018 19:58:21 GMT -5
As I said in another thread, I think I want the answer to be another V.F.D. member. Failing that, I think it being Esme would make sense. She absolutely has her own motives and reasons for acting independently of Olaf; she is not a member of the troupe for Olaf to boss around, but his girlfriend, and even then that could only be the case from TEE onwards. |
|
|
|
Post by Uncle Algernon on Apr 27, 2018 5:40:44 GMT -5
the only member of his troupe I put on the list is the wart faced man (Not just because of irony, but because he appears so little that we don't know much about him or if he is even a member of Olaf's gang. He may have been just an associate of his who Olaf felt no need to use him again). … I just remembered that Handler's Beware of Count Olaf song mentions "wart-faced bald men with long noses" when listing off Olaf's Troupe, so it would appear the Wart-Faced Man was just a one-off alternate moniker for none other than the Bald Man, of whom we learn that he actually is wart-faced. |
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Apr 27, 2018 6:12:37 GMT -5
Strictly speaking, that song was written by Stephin Merritt, not Daniel Handler; and in the actual book itself, TBB, the bald man and the wart-faced man are clearly described as separate individuals and listed separately on page 158.
|
|
|
|
Post by Uncle Algernon on Apr 27, 2018 6:32:52 GMT -5
Strictly speaking, that song was written by Stephin Merritt, not Daniel Handler; and in the actual book itself, TBB, the bald man and the wart-faced man are clearly described as separate individuals and listed separately on page 158. Huh. Curious. What do you make of the song lyric, then? |
|
