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Post by Dante on Apr 5, 2019 14:32:08 GMT -5
So far as islands go, to my recollection the only allusions to them before The End are in TBB, TEE, and TPP. The characteristics attributed to the TBB and TEE islands don't quite match up with what we get in The End, which is a bit of a shame, as I suspect Handler had long lined up a desert island setting for the finale (I think I read once that he had a list of settings drafted out) and TEE's reference at least may well have been intended as foreshadowing.
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Post by veryferociousdrama on Apr 5, 2019 14:38:44 GMT -5
So far as islands go, to my recollection the only allusions to them before The End are in TBB, TEE, and TPP. The characteristics attributed to the TBB and TEE islands don't quite match up with what we get in The End, which is a bit of a shame, as I suspect Handler had long lined up a desert island setting for the finale (I think I read once that he had a list of settings drafted out) and TEE's reference at least may well have been intended as foreshadowing. Some of Lemony's anecdotes refer to an island as well, like the one with the monkey, I believe. Notes on Chapters Eleven to Thirteen. How far is it between Dark Avenue and the Baudelaire mansion? I'm not entirely sure how far a "block" is supposed to be, but if there's a few, then I'm not sure why it takes so long to navigate the tunnel. Presumably Esme locked the door-way to stop Beatrice and Bertrand getting out. Why is the mailman still delivering to the Baudelaire mansion? At least the film alluded to it maybe being a Volunteer! So the Cafe Salmonella waiters seem very evil, as opposed to Larry. Are they with the Villains? They certainly seem in on what's going on, though I an't understand why Esme would tell them. Nobody seems to ask why the doorman is at the auction, and not at Dark Avenue. Where is Poe getting his Quagmire rumors from? The Daily Punchillio? Are Olaf and Esme using Geraldine and having her put in fake news to lift distraction from the City? Poe certainly seems to believe the paper, so it'd be easy for him to go to fake locations. Once again Olaf and co just run away. I'm glad the show made the exits more exciting. |
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Post by Dante on Apr 6, 2019 3:27:02 GMT -5
How far is it between Dark Avenue and the Baudelaire mansion? I'm not entirely sure how far a "block" is supposed to be, but if there's a few, then I'm not sure why it takes so long to navigate the tunnel. Presumably Esme locked the door-way to stop Beatrice and Bertrand getting out. This, at the very least, I think is almost certainly correct, regardless of what other theories one may hold about the fire. He's allowed to just be walking past while on his route. ...Also, on rereading the mansion scene just now, I'm reasonably convinced that the whole plotline of the hidden passageway was intended to be an important part of the plot, before the idea of fixed solutions vanished into the ether. It reads like a definite clue, where later we're asked to decide for ourselves. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Apr 6, 2019 10:06:38 GMT -5
Chapter Ten
'The three siblings were pleased that their guardian had not dismissed their findings, or argued with them about Gunther or the Quagmires or anything else, but instead had quietly and calmly listened to every detail.' (p178) An adult actually listening to the Baudelaires and believing them about Olaf? It must be a trap!
When would Esme have had time to tell Olaf to put up the net? I guess it's possible he came up with the plan after he took the Quagmires away, but then it's odd he wouldn't have tried to act on it earlier.
The net must be very soft/bouncy for the Bauds to make it even that far uninjured.
'"But I want to steal from you," Esmé said. "I want to steal from you the way Beatrice stole from me."' (p188) I wonder if Handler had, at this point, planned what it was that Beatrice had stolen. Also, I think this is the first time Beatrice is mentioned by name by a character who isn't Lemony.
'"Gunther probably stood on a long ladder to drive these pegs into the walls of the passageway,"' (p190-191) How could a ladder that tall even work? This makes more sense if there is some sort of elevator mechanism in place, even if it's just a platform on a hidden rope, that Olaf is able to use.
It must have taken at least an hour for Sunny to climb up the shaft.
How would Sunny have got back into the apartment? Presumably Esme would have locked the door when she left. I guess we'll just have to assume she forgot.
It must be another hour and a half before they get to the bottom of the shaft. That means it must be around, say, one-thirty pm now, but I suppose the auction would go on for a while. Also the Baudelaires have just had two sleepless nights in a row and haven't eaten anything since dinner the previous night. This is the point in the series where you really start to get concerned for their welfare.
Chapter Eleven
How far underground is the tunnel? The way the Baudelaires can hear things going on overhead makes it seem like it's not that far, but then how could the ground not cave in?
The passage about Lemony's boxes really builds up the mystery and suspense.
'I have spent more hours than I can ever count going over every inch of this map as carefully as possible, so that everything that can be learned from it can be copied into my files, and then into books such as this one, in the hopes that the general public will finally learn every detail of the treacherous conspiracy I have spent my life trying to escape.' (p213) Odd that Lemony wants the general public to find out about things, while also warning them off reading his books. Maybe he feels that those are a duty of conscience. This description of VFD, if indeed that was what it was meant to be at the time of Handler writing, seems very different to the organisation we eventually find out about. Sure, it is a 'treacherous conspiracy', but I don't think it's fair to say that Lemony has spent his life trying to escape it. This could be a sign of how disillusioned he is with the organisation by the time of writing ASOUE, but he clearly does have mixed or conflicted feelings about it, as can be seen through other descriptions.
'But in the sudden brightness of the morning sun,' (p215) It should be afternoon now.
I love the description of the return to the mansion.
'"People have always said it's haunted here on the empty lot where the Baudelaire mansion burned down,"' (p216) People must have seen Olaf nosing around, but it's possible other VFD members could also have been there during this time.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Apr 6, 2019 11:21:07 GMT -5
Jerome must at some point have walked out of the penthouse, seen the rope made of his possessions tied to his doorknob and leading down into an empty elevator shaft - and ignored it. Why not? Presumably, he assumed it was Esmé's latest nonsensical "in" idea for interior design. |
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Post by Foxy on Apr 7, 2019 9:57:01 GMT -5
Where is Poe getting his Quagmire rumors from? The Daily Punchillio? Are Olaf and Esme using Geraldine and having her put in fake news to lift distraction from the City? Poe certainly seems to believe the paper, so it'd be easy for him to go to fake locations. If I had to make a conjecture, I would say his sister, Eleanora. before the idea of fixed solutions vanished into the ether. This idea, where not everything has a real solution, is kind of the charm of fiction, I think. Not everything has to make sense. When would Esme have had time to tell Olaf to put up the net? I guess it's possible he came up with the plan after he took the Quagmires away, but then it's odd he wouldn't have tried to act on it earlier. Maybe the Quagmires told Count Olaf the Baudelaires were going to come back to rescue them. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these thoughts. I really wonder why the plot of land hasn't been cleaned up, and who owns the plot of land. I would assume Violet, so does that mean the ruins just stay there until she comes of age? |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Apr 7, 2019 16:08:16 GMT -5
Jerome must at some point have walked out of the penthouse, seen the rope made of his possessions tied to his doorknob and leading down into an empty elevator shaft - and ignored it. Why not? Presumably, he assumed it was Esmé's latest nonsensical "in" idea for interior design. This made me laugh out loud. Chapter TwelveIs the illustration of Jerome? 'The Baudelaires were in regular clothes rather than pinstripes,' (p220) Weren't they wearing pinstripes the last time their outfits were described? Maybe I'm getting confused, but I thought they were wearing them the previous day. Still, it's conceivable they decided to change before climbing down the elevator, if nothing else. '"Big enough to sleep inside this fish, if you are in the mood, please."' (p229) Wow, could you be any more obvious? I guess Olaf is really confident the Baudelaires believe the Quagmires are in Lot Fifty. I can't believe Klaus still thinks Poe will believe them about Gunther. Why is Olaf so calm? Surely he doesn't want the Bauds getting away, even if he knows they won't figure out where the Quags actually are. And HOW do they not guess who the doorman is at this point? If the Baudelaires were just going to confront Olaf and Esme, I don't see why they needed to buy the box to do it. I mean, couldn't they tell everyone what was going on as soon as the lot was announced? I realise that might not have worked, but just exposing Esme and Olaf seems to have been their whole plan, so they might as well have tried to do it earlier. Chapter Thirteen'the sort of napkins that you might use to decorate a plate of cookies at a fancy tea party.' (p243) VFD seems to have had their fair share of those. Why does Esme decide to out herself as a villain's girlfriend? Maybe she just doesn't care anymore about what these people think of her. '"We're out - out of the city!"' (p248) Except, that's not what they do, at least not right away, according to TVV. 'Esmé hid her evil plan behind her reputation as the city's sixth most important financial advisor,' (p253) I like this idea, that villainy can be hidden behind a veneer of respectability. Olaf seems to do this too, with many of his disguises. 'Olaf had already transferred the Quagmires from the red herring to a shiny black instrument case, which he told the bus driver was a tuba he was bringing to his aunt.' (p254-5) I guess that he takes them back to his tower room in this, though one wonders why. Maybe just so he could regroup? Tracking down Olaf is definitely a dangerous idea, and I think it's perfectly reasonable that Jerome wouldn't want the children participating in this. It's just a shame that no adult can be relied upon to do the job of arresting him. Timeline notes: it seems like the Baudelaires are at the Squalors' for nine days. Six uneventful days, then the day they meet Gunther and eat dinner at Café Salmonella, the day they eavesdrop on all the apartments in the building and climb down the elevator shaft at night, and the day of the In Auction. Adding in a stay at the Poe's house prior to the start of the book, it's probably been about three weeks since the end of TAA. This means that the overall timespan of the series has been thirty-one weeks, or a bit more than seven months. To My Kind EditorThe Not-Very-Supermarket sounds similar to Partial Foods. I can't remember how I initially reacted to 'the V.F.D. crows', but I imagine it would seem really bizarre to someone who had never read the books before. |
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Post by Foxy on Apr 8, 2019 9:12:46 GMT -5
Is the illustration of Jerome? I always thought it was the sunglasses guy. This kind of stuff gets me. They were smart enough to see through Count Olaf's disguises, but they could never figure out who his henchmen were or what his plans were until it was too late. |
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