Great 667 Re-Read 2019 - The Ersatz Elevator

[veryferociousdrama]

TAA is out, and TEE is in...

[Foxy]

Personal Notes:

How long does it really take to walk up sixty-six flights of stairs? (2)

“That unstylish banker…” hahaha! (2)

The Squalors just moved into the penthouse a few weeks ago. (3)

They only had one hour to walk down all the stairs and make it to the restaurant. (3)

Jerome is a bad guardian. (4)

Sunny was pretty much on the money when she thought the Squalors were working with Gunther. (6)

Hooky has an associate who says every problem has a solution, sometimes it just takes a long time to find the solution – even if it’s right in front of your nose. (6)

How did they have time to travel the elevator shaft five times? (10)

It’s too bad Mr. Poe didn’t win the fish statue. It would have been hilarious if he inadvertently actually did something right. (12)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

THE ERSATZ ELEVATOR



CHARACTERS:

Mr. Poe (1): promoted to Vice President in Charge of Orphan Affairs (1)

Violet Baudelaire (1)

Klaus Baudelaire (1)

Sunny Baudelaire (1): scarcely larger than a salami

Mr. Jerome Squalor (2)

Mrs. Esmé Gigi Geniveve Squalor (2): the city’s sixth most important financial advisor

Duncan Quagmire

Isadora Quagmire

Quigley Quagmire (mentioned) (1)

Quagmire parents (mentioned) (1)

the doorman/hook-handed man (1)

family of seven (3): mother and father lost their jobs, can’t afford to live in one-room apartment

twelve millionaires (3)

Count Olaf/Gunther (3)

Waiters and waitresses (5)

Galileo (5)

Junichiro Tanizaki (5)

sharp-toothed mountain lion (5)

King of Arizona (6)

Ben: Violet’s friend who gave her some elevator blueprints for her birthday (7)

mailman (11)

Man in sunglasses (12)



VIOLET’S INVENTION:

welding torches (8)
; crow bars


KLAUS’S RESEARCH:

the In Auction catalog (9)



SUNNY’S BITING:

climbing up the elevator shaft (10)



V.F.D.:

Very Fancy Doilies



THE LIBRARY:

Esmé’s In library



SNICKET SECRETS:

He wants his execution to be cancelled. (1)

Just the other day, it was useful and necessary for him to have an unpleasant argument with a medical student because he needed to borrow his speedboat so he would not be chained inside a very small, waterproof room instead of sitting in a typewriter factory typing this story. (4)

He was wondering if he would be able to saw through his handcuffs and crawl out of a double-locked window. (6)

One of his prized posessions is a small wooden box with a special lock. It is more than five hundred years old and works with a secret code his grandfather taught him. There is a small silver key inside, and it opens another slightly larger wooden box given to him by a woman his grandfather refused to speak about. Inside the large box is a roll of parchment with a map of the city. The twelve previous owners of the map are dead. (11)



REFERENCES (real and made up):

Boots Were In in 1812 (3)

Trout: In France They’re Out (3)

Hansel and Gretel (6)

Hercules (10)



SNICKETISMS:

the one about the difference between nervous and anxious (1)

the one about a mixed bag (3)

the one about “Oh.” (3)

the one about the table of elements (4)

the one about arguing being useful and necessary to do (4)

the one about eating too much liquid carpet cleaner (5)

the one about morning being the best time for thinking (6)

the one about a pitch-black panther, covered in tar, eating black licorice at the bottom of the deepest part of the Black Sea (7)

the one about five burglars specializing in rope (7)

the one about not being 1/27 okay (7)

the one about waiting rooms (8)

the one about troublesome things becoming less troublesome the more you do them (9)

the one about a bar of extra-dark chocolate sitting in a planetarium covered in a thick, black blanket (9)

the one with two completely black pages (10)

the one about the prestigious Door Prize (11)



BAUDELAIRE FAMILY HISTORY:

Their parents attended the Sixteenth Annual Run-a-Thon and were too tired to stand and make dinner afterward, so they had salad. (2)

The Baudelaire’s mother hiked up Mount Fraught twenty years ago, and something swooped out of the sky. (2)

Violet was inspired to be an inventor when she was just two years old. (3)

Klaus’s father used to take him to the Akhmatova bookstore to by encyclopedia volumes and atlases. (3)

Sunny was born at the Pincus Hospital. (3)

Their mother used to love auctions. (3)

Beatrice stole from Esmé Squalor. (10)



SNICKET DICTIONARY:

Alleviated: not particularly on Sunny’s mind (10)

Anxious: troubled by disturbing suspense (1)

Broke their fall: the Baudelaires’ plunge was stopped halfway between the sliding elevator doors and the metal cage where the Quagmires had been locked up (10)

Compatriots: friends (1)

Cooking had never been her forte: something she couldn’t do very well, except for making toast, and sometimes she couldn’t even do that without burning it to a crisp (8)

Cul-de-sac: At the end of the dark hallway, the Baudelaire children found an assortment of mysterious circumstances (11)

Disconcerting: a warning that the Baudelaire children did not heed in time (10)

Dogged Determination: everywhere they went, thinking up treacherous schemes and wearing disguises to try to fool the three children (1)

Dwarfed by comparison: one thing seems small when compared to another thing (3)

Ersatz: a situation in which one thing is pretending to be another OR the most terrifying place the Baudelaires had ever seen (7)

Fared no better: also became bored in her bedroom (3)

Greatest myths: big fat lies (9)

Haunted: people who have seen and heard such horrible things that they feel as if ghosts are living inside them, haunting their brains and hearts with misery and despair (8)

Hide or hair of them: even a glimpse of the city’s sixth most important financial advisor, or her husband (7)

Hubbub: a huge crowd of people in an enormous, fancy room (11)

Idiosyncrasies: unique habits (7)

Nefarious disguises: he did not fool them one bit no matter what he was wearing (4)

Nervous: worried about something (1)

Nodded resolutely: tried to make themselves stop feeling ungrateful and put on the suits (3)

Red herring: a distracting and misleading clue (12)

Roll of parchment: some very old paper printed with a map of the city at the time when the Baudelaire orphans lived in it (11)

Shorthanded: unprepared (10)

Somniferous: something that is so boring it puts you to sleep (5)

Stiffening of their resolve: realized that they had to search the penthouse for Gunther, even though it was a scary thing to do (6)

Taken aback: surprised that someone who was so selfish had purchased gifts for them (3)

Vapid: usually containing horses in a field or puppies in a basket (8)

We hit the jackpot: look at these fire tongs – they’re perfect! (8)



SUNNY SPEECH:

Agoula?: What for? (8)

Aguen?” Could you saw through the bars of the cage? (8)

Aha! (7)

Akrofil: And they’re not afraid of heights, that’s for sure. (2)

Armani: (something about Jerome’s neckties) (7)

Ayjim: I love my suit. Thank you very much. (3)

Bangemp: If it weren’t for the Quagmires, we would have been in his clutches a long time ago. (7)

Bikayado?” What new evil plan have you cooked up to steal our fortune? (4)

Bishuy: Or maybe he is in one of the other apartments, and we just didn’t hear him. (6)

Bite. (13)

Blized: It’s nothing. (6)

Chittol: That’s true. We should stop complaining and go change into our new outfits. (3)

Co: Or maybe Gunther managed to trick one of the other residents of 667 Dark Avenue into letting him into their apartments, and then he tied them up and is sitting there hiding in the kitchen. (6)

Crife!: (something about biting) (2)

Dielee?: What are we going to do? (10)

Ditemu: What other way is there? (10)

Dwestall: All the research in the world can’t help Duncan and Isadora now. (9)

Ecrif!: (Agreement about being scared.) (6)

Enipy: But I’m sure we can manage. (8)

Evomer: I can’t stand it any longer. Let’s tell everyone in the room what is really going on. (11)

Frejip?” How can you think of elevators at a time like this? (7)

Ganba: (Okay) (10)

Gavu?: The Quagmires have been found and rescued? (1)

Geronimo!: I don’t need to bite my way back down. (10)

Glaucus: But we can’t do that. (10)

Gonope?” (Where are Duncan and Isadora?) (13)

Grape!: (A grape is a fruit!) (6)

Gretel! (6)

Gyzan: (Pegs?) (10)

Hansel! (6)

Herdiset?: Crowbars? (11)

Kaxret: You got it, Esmé. (10)

Klofy: Of course. But how? (6)

Koundix: But he can’t be in the penthouse. Esmé saw him leave. (6)

Knilliu!: That’s very considerate of you. (6)

Lakry: There are no ropes. (7)

Lorigo!: What are we waiting for? Let’s go! (6)

Menrov?” Should we try to tell Jerome about Gunther and Esmé and the Quagmire triplets? (12)

Meotze: But the Squalor library has only those snooty books on what’s in and what’s out. (9)

Middiow?” (What’s an elevator shaft?) (7)

Mineak: Gunther would never take a shower. He’s filthy. (6)

Mmphmm!: (something about Count Olaf) (3)

Netesh: Of course I would! Mountain lions are wild animals. (5)

No. (7)

Nolano?: Do you think the Squalors are working together with Gunther? (6)

Noque, noque: There, there. (9)

Nnphnn!: (Something else about Count Olaf) (3)

Obog: (doubt) (1)

Oh. (3)

Onosew: Yes, ma’am. (8)

Peflob! (11)

Philavem: Let’s get started. (6)

Pince: Or outer space. (1)

Pomres: As it turned out, the stove ws the least of Aunt Josephine’s problems. (2)

Pratjic: Gunther must have ended up somewhere if he took this passageway. (11)

Prawottle: Older children aren’t supposed to be near a hot oven either, especially without adult supervision. (8)

Prollit: But not as terrifying as what Gunther will do to us, if we don’t find out his plan. (7)

Puictiw: (agreement) (3)

Pyetian: We’ll never make it there in time to expose Gunther and save the Quagmires. (11)

Reauhop!: And good luck! (9)

Resyca!: Or you could simply ask him to leave the penthouse, and never return! (4)

Selrep: That’s the one with the bright blue oven. (8)

Silko!: (agreement) (12)

Smashi?: (Smashing?) (3)

Snack! (6)

Soried: So far so good. (10)

Sorusu: Behind those wooden planks lies the answer to the mystery of V.F.D., and why the secret hallway led us to the place where the Baudelaire mansion burnt to the ground, killing our parents, and beginning the series of unfortunate events that haunt us wherever we go. (11)

Spenset: (We’re alive.) (10)

Stiblo!: We can imporove our vocabulary later – tell us what’s on your mind! (7)

Sunny!: (8)

Tada! (10)

Tageb: (Good morning.) (6)

Tenti: If we had some dynamite, we could blast our way out of the hallway, but we can’t use the tongs as dynamite. (11)

Tercul!: And we don’t want to forget about everything else, either – like the underground hallway that led to our ruined mansion, and the real meaning of V.F.D.! (13)

Tholc?: Like teeth? (10)

Thousand! (12)

Tisdu?: Where in the city can you find ashes outdoors? (11)

Toomsk: That must be where the Quagmires are hidden. (9)

Top! (10)

Topoing? (7)

Tretchev!: Welcome home! (7)

Up! (11)

Vasta: I’ll just have to risk it- it’s our only hope. (10)

Vinfrey: (We’d better spend the day figuring out what Gunther’s up to.) (6)

Vinung: Don’t say it. (9)

Waran!: (His improper English is just part of his disguise.) (4)

Wrech: Not to mention making those welding torches. (9)

Yaff: I think I’ve reached the halfway point. (10)

Yallrel: And let’s shut the sliding elevator doors, so the Squalors don’t see that we’ve been sneaking around an elevator shaft. (9)

Yelliverc!: That second elevator is almost completely useless! (7)

Yikes! (9)

Yoigt: But if I fall, I’ll just fall back into the net. (10)

Zelestin: It’ll be terrifying to climb down that horrible passageway again. (8)

Zisalem!: (something about Esmé being a terrible guardian) (10)



GEOGRAPHY:

Dark Avenue (1)

George Washington Boulevard (1) (mentioned)

Sixth Street (1) (mentioned)

Mulctuary Money Management (mentioned) (1)

orange juice factories (2)

Jerome’s favorite restaurant (2)

Verne Invention Museum (3)

Akhmatova Bookstore (3)

Pincus Hospital (3)

Veblen Hall (3)

Café Salmonella (3)

In Boutique (3)

Fish District (5)

Briny Beach (5)

Clothing District (6)

Beverage District (6)

Stationary District (7)

island somewhere (8)

remains of the Baudelaire mansion (11)

glue factory (12)

St. Carl’s Cathedral (13)

Vietnamese restaurant (13)



FOODOLOGY:

prune ice cream (1)

aqueous martini (2)

popcorn (3)

creamy salmon soup (5)

chilled salmon salad (5)

broiled salmon served with a salmon ravioli in salmon butter sauce (5)

salmon pie with a scoop of salmon ice cream (5)

poached eggs (6)

whole wheat toast (6)

parsley soda (6)

grapes (6)

a box of crackers (6)

jar of apple butter (6)

bottle of water (6)

chocolate sprinkles (7)

whole wheat flour (10)

salmon puffs (11)

ice cream sandwiches (13)



APARTMENTS:

7: two men laughed as someone told a joke (2)

12: splashing of water as someone took a bath (2)

17: somebody asked their mother where the bubble bath was (5)

19: woman saying, “Let them eat cake,” in a strange accent (2)

38: somebody was brushing their teeth (5)

___: someone with a deep, deep voice read a children’s story out loud. (5)

63: a man who lives with his mother and is taking a shower (6)

64: a very short man in a pinstripe suit and someone else named Avery (6)

65: a woman talking on the telephone (6)

Penthouse: seventy-one bedrooms, living rooms, dining rooms, breakfast rooms, snack rooms, sitting rooms, standing rooms, ballrooms, bathrooms, kitchens, and rooms with no purpose at all



In things:

anything with chocolate sprinkles on it (7)

aqueous martinis (2)

automobile tires (7)

billboards with photographs of weasels on them (7)

bright blue cereal bowls (7)

Café Salmonella (4)

cotton balls (7)

Cross-country skiing (7)

dark (1)

garbage cans with letters of the alphabet stenciled all over them (7)

grapefruits (7)

magenta wallpaper (7)

movies with waterfalls in them (7)

ocean decorations (5)

orphans (2)

parsley soda (6)

pinstripe suits (2)

regular light (2)

silent hinges (7)

“toodle-oo” (10)

triangular picture frames (7)

vacuum cleaners (7)

very fancy doilies (7)

walking up ridiculously long staircases (1)

yellow paper clips (7)



LOTS:

#14 – an enormous globe

#25 – a rare and valuable piano

#46 – vase with blue flowers

#47 – a pair of ballet slippers made of chocolate

#48 – an enormous statue of a scarlet fish

#50 – V.F.D.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Apr 1, 2019 9:26:45 GMT -5 Foxy said:

How long does it really take to walk up sixty-six flights of stairs? (2)

I was wondering that. You wouldn't think it would take all afternoon, but I guess waiting for Sunny to crawl up the stairs would be time-consuming.

The Squalors just moved into the penthouse a few weeks ago. (3)

This is somewhat confusing. TUA makes it sound like they would have only just got married, and that Jerome owned the penthouse before he met Esme. I guess he could have owned it and lived elsewhere. 

Hooky has an associate who says every problem has a solution, sometimes it just takes a long time to find the solution – even if it’s right in front of your nose. (6)

I thought this was maybe meant to be a clue to his identity, but I don't think Olaf or any of his henchpeople say this, at least not that we see in the series.

General Notes

This book is by far my favourite out of the first half of the series. I prefer the way TVV twists the plot and subverts the tropes that have previously set up, but I'd still say I prefer this one for the way it combines the charm of the early books with the adventure and mystery of the later ones. I love reading about Dark Avenue, I love reading about Esme, and I love the way the Baudelaires are more active as characters compared to TMM and TAA.

I prefer the Egmont cover, even if it does give away Esme as working with Olaf, although the first time I read the book I wasn't actually sure that it was meant to be her. The cover depicts a more exciting scene than the HarperCollins one, which is just the Baudelaires climbing up and down the shaft.

The dedication is a little odd, since we know Lemony and Beatrice met as children and Beatrice must have been in her late thirties at least when she died. I wouldn't describe an event as happening 'soon after' another event that occurred at least twenty-five years previously.

Chapter One

So, Lemony is heading towards his execution here. At what point did he get captured? Could it have to do with the angry mob that he describes in TAA?

'Although Dark Avenue was just a few blocks away from where the Baudelaire mansion had been, the three children had never been in this neighborhood before,' (p4) This seems odd. Maybe their parents purposefully kept them away, so they wouldn't be able to discover any secrets.

What does Poe mean when he says he is in charge of the Quagmire 'situation'? He's the executor of the Baudelaire parents' estate, which gives him to power to appoint guardians, and so on. Previously, he was not in charge of the Quagmire estate, but is he now? Maybe he's just sort of a supervisor. And where does Esme come in? Is she in charge of the Quagmires' estate, with Poe presiding over her? It's all very confusing. Also, are there really so many orphans whose parents were clients of Mulctuary Money Management that Vice President in Charge of Orphan Affairs is a position that needs to exist? Maybe the Sinister Duo have been very busy with their 'recruitment schemes' around this time.

'"Now, as soon as I drop you off here I am taking a three-week helicopter ride to a mountain peak where the Quagmires may have been spotted."' Why is this Poe's job, as a banker?

Has Fernando been working as a doorman at 667 Dark Avenue since the end of TRR? It seems likely that he has.

How far does the decree of 'In' spread? Is it just in this one specific neighbourhood? The Baudelaires didn't live far away, and they've never heard of these rules before.

Presumably Esme decided that elevators should be 'Out' so Jerome wouldn't stumble across the secret shaft by accident.

[takatoguil]

The National Multiple Sclerosis Society hosts a Stair Climb event in which participants can choose to climb (competitively or otherwise) 36, 72, or 108 flights of stairs. They say that the average participant takes 25 to 35 minutes to climb the 36 flights, which suggests that one really shouldn't be taking so much as an hour and a half to do 66 - two or three hours for adolescents with a baby.

[veryferociousdrama]

Notes on Chapters One to Three.

Suddenly Poe sounds a bit more like Movie Poe than Show Poe. If he's the Vice President of Orphan Affairs, it sounds to me that the President is either a Volunteer or Villain. Maybe the role is split between the Sinister Duo in disguise?

So the mountain the Quagmires are supposedly trapped in - the Mortmain Mountains? Probably not if it's going to take three weeks to get there by helicopter. One possibility is that Poe's searching the general area while he's there. And I thought Esme was the one who put the Quagmires at Prufrock? Is Poe the Vice President of Orphan Affairs for the city government? In which case, he shouldn't really be neglecting his duties for three weeks.

So Jerome went to Mount Fraught with Beatrice? Given that it's a Snow Scout place, I think they may have been with them. Who are the other friends? Volunteers? I don't think Jerome's a member yet, but he could be like Charles. And if he lived so close by, why was he never invited to dinner, did they just lose touch over the years?

If either Jerome or Esme are a relative, it's more likely Esme, probably Bertrand's ant-burning cousin. After all, if Jerome was the relative, and he lived so close by, they could have gone straight to him. Unless Esme made Jerome refuse, but then why did Poe ask again, unless he was really desperate? One possibility is that Jerome is Bertrand's cousin, and Esme's Uncle Monty's sister, but I really don't like that theory.

So the Baudelaires can see where their friends lived, why don't they ask Jerome to see them? They could have also gone back to their old school, but Esme most likely refused on the grounds of education being out.

What Jerome says sounds like he helped organize the In Auction before, but in the UA it sounds like he and Esme only met recently. He may have just attended them before, and thought it would be nice to raise money for the poor.

I don't believe what Jerome says about them only being in Dark Avenue a few weeks, or at least think he's exaggerating. I believe that either Esme started the Baudelaire fire to get revenge on Beatrice, or somebody (Geraldine? Fan Club?) did so under her command. but she could keep the passage shut, killing Beatrice and Bertrand in the flames. But my toting up of the timeline makes it several months since the fire, so exaggeration it is.

So Esme says they've only been there a few days, but it seems between a month and six weeks. Her busy lifestyle probably means she loses track of time.

[Foxy]

Apr 1, 2019 15:00:49 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

Apr 1, 2019 9:26:45 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Hooky has an associate who says every problem has a solution, sometimes it just takes a long time to find the solution – even if it’s right in front of your nose. (6)

I thought this was maybe meant to be a clue to his identity, but I don't think Olaf or any of his henchpeople say this, at least not that we see in the series.

Maybe this was proof that at one time Hooky had noble associates.

The dedication is a little odd, since we know Lemony and Beatrice met as children and Beatrice must have been in her late thirties at least when she died. I wouldn't describe an event as happening 'soon after' another event that occurred at least twenty-five years previously.

Maybe he meant comparatively? He thought he was going to spend the rest of his life with her, living to an old age, but that did not happen.

What does Poe mean when he says he is in charge of the Quagmire 'situation'? He's the executor of the Baudelaire parents' estate, which gives him to power to appoint guardians, and so on. Previously, he was not in charge of the Quagmire estate, but is he now? Maybe he's just sort of a supervisor. And where does Esme come in? Is she in charge of the Quagmires' estate, with Poe presiding over her? It's all very confusing. Also, are there really so many orphans whose parents were clients of Mulctuary Money Management that Vice President in Charge of Orphan Affairs is a position that needs to exist? Maybe the Sinister Duo have been very busy with their 'recruitment schemes' around this time.

I think Mr. Poe is in charge of the situation because he received his promotion. Esme being in charge of the Quagmires' estate is brought up I think by Quigley in the tenth book, but if she was in charge of it, I don't see why she couldn't just adopt the orphans herself (other than it wasn't "in" at the time) or even just dip into their fortune while no one was looking. I mean, the law enforcement in these books can't capture a notorious villain. Would they really notice thievery by the city's sixth most important financial advisor?

Has Fernando been working as a doorman at 667 Dark Avenue since the end of TRR? It seems likely that he has.

That would be an interesting story!

How far does the decree of 'In' spread? Is it just in this one specific neighbourhood? The Baudelaires didn't live far away, and they've never heard of these rules before.

Probably only to snooty people who care about such things.

Apr 2, 2019 1:15:29 GMT -5 veryferociousdrama said:

So the mountain the Quagmires are supposedly trapped in - the Mortmain Mountains? Probably not if it's going to take three weeks to get there by helicopter.

Can you even ride in a helicopter for three weeks without stopping to get more fuel? And how far away would it have to be to take three weeks to get there?

So the Baudelaires can see where their friends lived, why don't they ask Jerome to see them? They could have also gone back to their old school, but Esme most likely refused on the grounds of education being out.

Maybe it's summer vacation?

It seems like there are a lot of time plot holes in this book.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Apr 2, 2019 1:15:29 GMT -5 veryferociousdrama said:

So Jerome went to Mount Fraught with Beatrice? Given that it's a Snow Scout place, I think they may have been with them. Who are the other friends? Volunteers? I don't think Jerome's a member yet, but he could be like Charles. And if he lived so close by, why was he never invited to dinner, did they just lose touch over the years?

The Mount Fraught hiking trip sounds like a VFD expedition, but I don't think Jerome can have been a member. Maybe, say, his parents were part of the organisation and didn't want him to be recruited, but he was still invited along to some VFD events.

What Jerome says sounds like he helped organize the In Auction before, but in the UA it sounds like he and Esme only met recently. He may have just attended them before, and thought it would be nice to raise money for the poor.

Yeah, he was probably just aware of how the In Auction had functioned in the past.

Apr 2, 2019 9:03:46 GMT -5 Foxy said:

I think Mr. Poe is in charge of the situation because he received his promotion. Esme being in charge of the Quagmires' estate is brought up I think by Quigley in the tenth book, but if she was in charge of it, I don't see why she couldn't just adopt the orphans herself (other than it wasn't "in" at the time) or even just dip into their fortune while no one was looking. I mean, the law enforcement in these books can't capture a notorious villain. Would they really notice thievery by the city's sixth most important financial advisor?

In TEE at least, it doesn't sound like she cares that much about getting money from the Baudelaires and the main reason she is collaborating with Olaf is because she wants revenge. Later, her motivations seem to change somewhat.

Also, I just realised that in my post from yesterday, autocorrect changed 'Fernald' to 'Fernando'.

Chapter Two

If there's only one apartment per floor, then surely they should all be the same size as the penthouse, robbing it of its prestige. I guess it's possible the building gets wider at the top.

Jerome's '"swooping out of the sky"' (p27) description is a big clue to Beatrice's identity.

'"we could have cared for you the entire time."' (p30) This makes it sound like Jerome and Esme have been married since the Baudelaire fire, but maybe Jerome only heard about it recently.

Chapter Three

Why would you have to eat gravel instead of popcorn at a movie theatre? I mean, couldn't you just choose not to eat anything?

Jerome doesn't seem to work, yet TUA implies he is independently wealthy. This could fit it with the idea of his parents having been in VFD; he could have inherited their fortune.

I'm pretty sure auction money usually would go to charity.

Doesn't Jerome think it's sort of suspicious that Esme wants him to take the children out to dinner without her?

How short is Violet, that the trousers of the suit could be so big for her?

[Foxy]

I always forget Esme already had heaps of money and her motive was revenge from Beatrice stealing her sugar bowl.

I wondered if "Fernando" was the work of autocorrect.

Maybe time moves slower in the city than it does outside the city? I mean, this is a work of fiction.

I think Jerome is so passive he doesn't think twice about Esme being in their penthouse alone with another man.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Apr 3, 2019 8:07:47 GMT -5 Foxy said:

I always forget Esme already had heaps of money and her motive was revenge from Beatrice stealing her sugar bowl.

It's sort of confusing, because she does still seem to want extra money, as can be evidenced by the In Auction - but considering she apparently gets the profits from the auction year after year, maybe that's where the bulk of her fortune came from in the first place.

Chapter Four

What is Olaf's plan here? Presumably he wants to smuggle the Quagmires out of the city, then come back for the Baudelaires when he has time, but why does he need to disguise himself as an auctioneer to facilitate this? I mean, I guess he just wants to be able to hide the Quagmires in an auction lot, but it's odd since he was able to sneak them into the city without using such tactics. Plus, IIRC, TVV makes it sound like he stayed in the city after the auction.

Jerome, it seems, is willing to ask Esme things at first, but doesn't persist when she shuts him down. I guess this is similar to the relationship between Charles and Sir, but Jerome is even less willing to argue.

'Just the other day, for example, it was useful and necessary for me to have an unpleasant argument with a medical student, because if he hadn't let me borrow his speedboat I would now be chained inside a very small, waterproof room, instead of sitting in a typewriter factory typing out this woeful tale.' (p67-8) So, Lemony was able to escape his execution by borrowing a speedboat. The town where he was going to be executed must have been on the coast - seems like there are several towns in the Snicketverse that have extremely draconian laws à la the Village of Fowl Devotees. 

Chapter Five

I think either TUA or TPP implies that waiters at Café Salmonella are on the villainous side of the schism. Maybe they are working with Esme and Olaf, trying to keep the Baudelaires and Jerome at dinner for as long as possible.

I didn't know what salmonella was the first time I read this book, so the actual joke was lost on me; I think I just thought 'Salmonella' was a play on 'salmon'.

'On the way [back to 667 Dark Avenue], the taxicab passed the beach where the Baudelaires had first heard the terrible news about the fire,' (p81) This seems to contradict the location of Briny Beach as described in TBB. Maybe Jerome asked the driver to stop there since he knew it had sentimental value to the children. Or else the driver was going the wrong way, and Jerome wouldn't correct him.

'"Mrs Squalor said that you were not supposed to return until your guest has left the penthouse, and he hasn't come down yet."' (p82) Seems like Fernald has made a bit of a mistake here. He's not supposed to let Jerome and the children in while Gunther is still in the apartment, but surely he should have anticipated that he would exit via the elevator shaft. Of course, in that case he would have no way of knowing that Olaf had left the apartment, unless he told him by walkie-talkie or something. Maybe he was supposed to do that but he didn't.

Sounds like Esme has also come up with the idea of ocean decorations being In, in order to facilitate the red herring plan.

'"Did [Gunther] take an elevator when he left?" Klaus said.
     Esmé's eyes widened, and she opened and shut her mouth several times without saying anything, as if she were experiencing the element of surprise.' (p87) Great, give the game away. The Baudelaires probably should have been able to guess that she is in cahoots with Olaf based on this.

Another sleepless night for the Baudelaires, although it's been a while since their last one.

[Foxy]

Apr 3, 2019 14:34:56 GMT -5 Carrie E. Abelabudite said:

What is Olaf's plan here? Presumably he wants to smuggle the Quagmires out of the city, then come back for the Baudelaires when he has time, but why does he need to disguise himself as an auctioneer to facilitate this? I mean, I guess he just wants to be able to hide the Quagmires in an auction lot, but it's odd since he was able to sneak them into the city without using such tactics. Plus, IIRC, TVV makes it sound like he stayed in the city after the auction.

Maybe he was trying to get all the orphans at once, because the plan was probably for the Baudelaires to stay trapped in the net of the elevator shaft, but when they escaped and Count Olaf's disguise was revealed, the plan changed. But it is kind of ironic, Esme really had both sets of orphans in her clutches.

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Apr 4, 2019 9:01:57 GMT -5 Foxy said:

Maybe he was trying to get all the orphans at once, because the plan was probably for the Baudelaires to stay trapped in the net of the elevator shaft, but when they escaped and Count Olaf's disguise was revealed, the plan changed. But it is kind of ironic, Esme really had both sets of orphans in her clutches.

I think Esme and Olaf only came up with the idea to trap the Baudelaires in the net after they realised they knew about the elevator. It definitely seems like they changed their plans a few times, though.

Chapter Six

'The morning I am writing this chapter, I am wondering if the future will hold something that will enable me to saw through these handcuffs and crawl out of the double locked window,' (p91) Looks like Lemony's managed to get captured again. Not sure how he would have been able to keep his typewriter with him.

I assume Esme is actually meeting with His Arizona Highness here, but I guess it's possible she's spending more time with Olaf.

Esme clearly wants Jerome out of the house, but surely it would make more sense for her to insist the children come with him. Maybe she doesn't want them talking to him too much, because she thinks he'll believe them. However, she should have realised that the Baudelaires are already suspicious about the elevator and will probably figure out where the Quagmires are now they have been left to their own devices.

What version of the Hansel and Gretel story have Violet and Klaus been told? I thought they were abandoned in the forest by their parents.

Of course, if Olaf were really hiding in one of the apartments, he'd probably be smart enough not to make too much noise, so the Baudelaires or anyone else wouldn't be able to tell who he was. Still, Klaus is right, they couldn't enter each apartment and check for Gunther, so this is a good plan.

'"Snack!" Sunny shrieked,' (p106) A first glimpse into her interest in cooking?

'"That's not Gunther either," Klaus whispered. "He's not that short, and he's not calling himself Avery."' (p108) Of course Olaf can't be the short man, but Klaus probably should have considered that he could have adopted another alias to hide around the building. Still, that doesn't seem to be his MO.

'Sticking out of [the doorman's] long sleeves were a small starfish carved out of wood, and a bottle of glue.' (p111) How could Fernald even hold these items? As I said in the TBB thread, it's easier to imagine him having pincers. Also, how could the Baudelaires not notice his hooks here?!?

'"I drink a lot of coffee," the doorman answered.' (p112) Would it really be possible to stay awake for days and days on end, even drinking a lot of coffee? Presumably Fernald has been working as a doorman for a while.

The way Fernald says the solution to the problem might be right in front of the Baudelaires' noses, then at that exact time glues the starfish on the elevator, makes it seem like he wants them to guess what's going on.

Chapter Seven

'"I don't think the elevator has been shut down because it's out. I think it's where Gunther is hiding."' (p216) This makes it sound like there's only one elevator, which may have been true in an earlier draft of the book. It still makes sense that Esme would want to shut down the elevator, in order to stop Jerome and the children from getting suspicious, but that's not exactly what Klaus is implying here.

Is it possible that there is some kind of elevator mechanism in the second shaft that the Baudelaires have missed? Maybe the ropes and such are hidden, and the platform is kept on the floor above the penthouse, the bottom of it forming a false ceiling for the shaft. That would explain how VFD members were able to use the building as a headquarters, and how Olaf is getting around.

'But I also saw, during my visit, what the Baudelaire orphans saw when they reached the bottom after climbing for more than three terrifying hours.' (p137) It was just after dinner when the Baudelaires started climbing - maybe, say, eight pm or so. That means it should be around eleven by the time they get to the bottom of the shaft. 

[veryferociousdrama]

Notes on Chapters Four to Ten.

Admittedly, it's very clever that Olaf pretended to be a foreigner. But the riding boots and monocle are quite unconvincing.

Beforehand it was said that Esme and Jerome were adopting the Baudelaires, but now they're just the legal guardians. Why the change in terms?

So a little something on the City's location. It's presumably by the sea if it's got docks. Where is it in connection to Stain'd-by-the-Sea? Are Tedia and Paltryville more in-land, and the edge of the Hinterlands takes you on a route to the City? Where does Lake Lachrymose come in?

Why is Jerome suddenly so cross about the Baudelaires being xenophobic? It just seems to suddenly come up.

So where is Gunther overnight? Sleeping in the lobby? Fernald's clearly lying about him coming downstairs. But is he? Is the person talking to their mother the woman in TPP? I hope so!

Fernald's excuse of drinking a lot of coffee is rather suspicious, you can sort of tell he's up to something. I imagine him and Olaf maybe sneak off at night now.

The King of Arizona sounds suspicious. If Volunteers have the Duchess of Winnipeg, is it possible the Villains have the King of Arizona?

Has there ever been a second elevator at Dark Avenue? If not, how did Olaf remove it? Obviously to use the VFD tunnel they would not have had one, but there would have had to be some form of cover-up if that was the case.

Let's just sort ourselves out here. So Olaf took a plane from near Prufrock Prep to the City. Did he take the Quagmires to Dark Avenue in the dog suit? And he, presumably with Esme and Fernald's help, got them into the building, to get them out of the City again. Wouldn't it just have been easier to take them through the City (presuming Prufrock's the other side) to the Hinterlands, leaving them with Olivia and the other troupe members, have Esme kill Jerome, and then just take the Baudelaires?

Another bit of idiocy from Olaf. Esme was in charge of the Quagmire's financial affairs, and it seemed like Poe could take money out to buy the candy in TAA and pay for the sail-boat in TWW. She could have just taken their fortune, and the effort could have been focused upon the Baudelaires.

One common theme in the books: they all have reference to an island, the Island? But Olaf doesn't seem to know about it in TE. But did Handler have an idea to end at an island from the start of the series? Sure sounds like it.

How long does it take to go up and down the shaft? They go up down, I believe twice between the early morning and ten-thirty. Subtracting the time it takes to construct the wields, it takes them less than half an hour the second time they go down. Even factoring in the conversation between them and the Quagmires, it seems to take them several hours the first time around!

Sunny really is a super-human, her teeth seem to get stronger every book. How is she able to climb a shaft with them?

[Dante]

Apr 4, 2019 14:17:05 GMT -5 veryferociousdrama said:

Beforehand it was said that Esme and Jerome were adopting the Baudelaires, but now they're just the legal guardians. Why the change in terms?

The series appears to view them as legally equivalent.

Let's just sort ourselves out here. So Olaf took a plane from near Prufrock Prep to the City. Did he take the Quagmires to Dark Avenue in the dog suit? And he, presumably with Esme and Fernald's help, got them into the building, to get them out of the City again. Wouldn't it just have been easier to take them through the City (presuming Prufrock's the other side) to the Hinterlands, leaving them with Olivia and the other troupe members, have Esme kill Jerome, and then just take the Baudelaires?

The plot of TEE doesn't really make sense, in all sorts of particulars.* I can only assume that Olaf merely intended to pass through the city, but got trapped in a police cordon and had to hide the Quagmires until he could devise a new way of smuggling them out without arousing suspicion. We learn in TVV that, after TEE, the Quagmires were hidden in Olaf's house for a time, though; but since Olaf's plan was exposed at the climax of TEE, we can only imagine that his escape didn't come off after all, and he had to come up with yet another (unseen) plan to escape from the city confines. Perhaps this is related to how he got Fowl Fountain into V.F.D., since that also has some serious chronological problems linked to it?

*For example, on page 122 the Baudelaires part ways from Jerome inside the penthouse, almost immediately make their way to the elevator, open the doors, construct their rope, and tie it to the doorknob of the penthouse. From that point onwards, the elevator doors are open with a makeshift rope attached to the penthouse doorknob and leading down the empty shaft until page 170 - and on the same page Violet finds a note from Jerome on her pillow saying that he's had to go out. In other words, barring some incredibly convenient timing involving the maze-like structure of the penthouse, Jerome must at some point have walked out of the penthouse, seen the rope made of his possessions tied to his doorknob and leading down into an empty elevator shaft - and ignored it.

[Foxy]

Apr 4, 2019 14:17:05 GMT -5 veryferociousdrama said:

Why is Jerome suddenly so cross about the Baudelaires being xenophobic? It just seems to suddenly come up.

I always found it interesting how Jerome wasn't willing to argue with Esme or any other adults in the book, but he seemed to be perfectly fine with arguing with the Baudelaires.

So where is Gunther overnight? Sleeping in the lobby? Fernald's clearly lying about him coming downstairs. But is he? Is the person talking to their mother the woman in TPP? I hope so!

1) Sleeping in the elevator shaft, or the floor above the penthouse, or maybe he exited through the secret tunnel and then locked it behind him. 2) I hope so too, never thought of that!

The King of Arizona sounds suspicious. If Volunteers have the Duchess of Winnipeg, is it possible the Villains have the King of Arizona?

I never thought of that comparison before. I like it!

Another bit of idiocy from Olaf. Esme was in charge of the Quagmire's financial affairs, and it seemed like Poe could take money out to buy the candy in TAA and pay for the sail-boat in TWW. She could have just taken their fortune, and the effort could have been focused upon the Baudelaires.

Mr. Poe could have used the fortune to pay for the sailboat, but since it turned our Captain Sham was Count Olaf, I don't think he actually did pay for the sailboat. And where did Count Olaf get all those sailboats, anyway? And I kind of think Mr. Poe had to use MMM money for the candy for VP Nero.

One common theme in the books: they all have reference to an island, the Island? But Olaf doesn't seem to know about it in TE. But did Handler have an idea to end at an island from the start of the series? Sure sounds like it.

Do they all? I've been trying to figure this out.

Sunny really is a super-human, her teeth seem to get stronger every book. How is she able to climb a shaft with them?

Sunny is amazing!!! I think she's capable of anything.

Apr 4, 2019 16:17:20 GMT -5 Dante said:

*For example, on page 122 the Baudelaires part ways from Jerome inside the penthouse, almost immediately make their way to the elevator, open the doors, construct their rope, and tie it to the doorknob of the penthouse. From that point onwards, the elevator doors are open with a makeshift rope attached to the penthouse doorknob and leading down the empty shaft until page 170 - and on the same page Violet finds a note from Jerome on her pillow saying that he's had to go out. In other words, barring some incredibly convenient timing involving the maze-like structure of the penthouse, Jerome must at some point have walked out of the penthouse, seen the rope made of his possessions tied to his doorknob and leading down into an empty elevator shaft - and ignored it.

This realization kind of broke my heart. It's sort of a big oversight on the part of the author.


Carrie E. Abelabudite : I like your theory about the hidden second elevator!

Edit: Why are the mansion grounds still in ruins?  Did the Baudelaire children inherit the land on which their mansion used to stand?  Why isn't anyone cleaning the place?

[Carrie E. Abelabudite]

Apr 4, 2019 14:17:05 GMT -5 veryferociousdrama said:

So a little something on the City's location. It's presumably by the sea if it's got docks. Where is it in connection to Stain'd-by-the-Sea? Are Tedia and Paltryville more in-land, and the edge of the Hinterlands takes you on a route to the City? Where does Lake Lachrymose come in?

Yes, the city must be on or very near the coast. Stain'd-by-the-Sea isn't actually by the sea anymore, since they drained it, but I'm not sure how they could have done this or how far inland the town now is. The Snicket Sleuth has an interesting theory pertaining to the location of Stain'd and the route of the Thistle of the Valley. The Hinterlands appear to be near the mountains, although I don't think they can be too far from the city - I'm pretty sure people were able to make the journey from there to Caligari Carnival as a day trip in TCC. The map in TUA shows that Lake Lachrymose is actually very near Opportune Odors and the Swarthy Swamp, although it seems like Josephine must live on the other side of the lake. 

Why is Jerome suddenly so cross about the Baudelaires being xenophobic? It just seems to suddenly come up.

It's especially odd because it seems like he believes the Baudelaires before they leave for dinner. Maybe he's upset about his 'fight' with Esme, trying to convince himself that's she's right, and is taking it out on the Baudelaires. 

Is the person talking to their mother the woman in TPP? I hope so!

There's also a man who keeps talking about his mother in TCC. It's annoying that they can't all be the same person, but the TEE person could be one or the other of them.

Another bit of idiocy from Olaf. Esme was in charge of the Quagmire's financial affairs, and it seemed like Poe could take money out to buy the candy in TAA and pay for the sail-boat in TWW. She could have just taken their fortune, and the effort could have been focused upon the Baudelaires.

Maybe that was Olaf's original plan, but Poe being promoted to VPICOOA meant that the account was being scrutinised more closely so Esme could no longer just hand the money over. I think the main reason Olaf kidnapped the Quagmires was because he knew they knew about VFD and didn't want them talking about it to the Baudelaires, and getting their fortune was just sort of an added bonus. 

One common theme in the books: they all have reference to an island, the Island? But Olaf doesn't seem to know about it in TE. But did Handler have an idea to end at an island from the start of the series? Sure sounds like it.

I think Handler always wanted to set a book, probably the last book, on an island. He probably changed his mind a few times about what he wanted it to be like, but in-universe, we can ascribe it to confusion on Olaf's part. 

Apr 4, 2019 16:17:20 GMT -5 Dante said:

The plot of TEE doesn't really make sense, in all sorts of particulars.* I can only assume that Olaf merely intended to pass through the city, but got trapped in a police cordon and had to hide the Quagmires until he could devise a new way of smuggling them out without arousing suspicion. We learn in TVV that, after TEE, the Quagmires were hidden in Olaf's house for a time, though; but since Olaf's plan was exposed at the climax of TEE, we can only imagine that his escape didn't come off after all, and he had to come up with yet another (unseen) plan to escape from the city confines. Perhaps this is related to how he got Fowl Fountain into V.F.D., since that also has some serious chronological problems linked to it?

I think TVV is worse in terms of having a nonsensical Olaf back-story, but his movements between the end of TAA and the beginning of THH are incredibly confusing.

Chapter Eight

At the end of TAA, Olaf grabbed Isadora and Duncan's notebooks, so how would they have got them back? I mean, it's possible he could have just given them to the Quagmires, but it's hard to see why he would do this. I guess they also must just have had pencils on them. You'd think Olaf would try to stop them taking notes but maybe he doesn't care enough.

'"it's all here in this notebook - from V.F.D. all the way to this terrible auction plan."' (p145) This makes it sound like VFD is a crime Olaf has committed, which maybe Handler intended it to be at the time although I'm not sure he would have. Certainly, Duncan doesn't make it sound like it has been a large part of his life.

It should be about two am when the Baudelaires get back up to the apartment, maybe a bit later.

Chapter Nine

It should be about five am by the time the Bauds get back to the bottom of the shaft.

How hot could the tongs still be after a three-hour climb?

It should be about eight by the time they get back up to the apartment.

As Dante pointed out, how could Jerome have missed the rope leading from the front door down into the elevator shaft? Violet literally decides to remove the rope for exactly this reason just on the previous page before the Baudelaires find his note. I guess he's just not very observant.

'"It's already ten o' clock."' (p171) Well, this is later than I thought it should be, but it's possible creating the rope, talking to the Quagmires and heating up the tongs took longer than I had budgeted.

The Baudelaries should probably have been able to figure out that VFD is a red herring, but there really isn't any way they could have worked out the actual lot the Quagmires were in. If they had been listening to Esme earlier, they might have picked up on 'very fancy doilies'.