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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 6, 2019 14:17:57 GMT -5
Two this week!
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Post by Foxy on May 8, 2019 6:58:52 GMT -5
Notes on the first thirty pages.
p.2 - The parents have pressing business to attend to, but they don't get to attend to the business because they die. What was this pressing business, and if the parents were so familiar with fire, how did they not know their home was on fire, and how were they unable to escape?
p.6 love the reference to not leaving a ring on the wood table
p.6 Is the sugar bowl in Mr. Poe's top hat?
p.8 Nobody's Family is Going to Change is a novel by Louise Fitzhugh. And "Olaf Fire Department"... ha!
p.12-13 Count Olaf visited? This sounds sinister.
p.14 What are his studies of Esme?
p.18 Reference to the Hotel D!
p.23 So he gave us the names of the parents right there?
p.25 Kit knows about the inside of Count Olaf's home, and the Baudelaire home has secret peepholes, too. Were there eyes in the Baudelaire home? And by eyes, I mean V.F.D. insiginias.
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 8, 2019 10:35:32 GMT -5
p.2 - The parents have pressing business to attend to, but they don't get to attend to the business because they die. What was this pressing business, and if the parents were so familiar with fire, how did they not know their home was on fire, and how were they unable to escape? I get the impression that their 'business' is talking to Olaf. It makes sense that they would send the children out of the house if they knew he was going to come over. I think there's a line in TE that suggests something to do with adoption papers. The sugar bowl is another interesting theory - in TUA, Brett Helquist mentions seeing a tea set in the wreckage of the Baudelaire mansion, so it seems like Beatrice and Bertrand had the sugar bowl at their house. In that case, someone must have picked it up and taken it to the VFD headquarters, but I don't know that Poe would know its significance. Maybe Beatrice and Bertrand specifically asked him to take it. At the time, it probably would not have been obvious that those were the names of the Baudelaire parents. I don't think either of their names are used until TPP. You'd think the children would have noticed, and commented on Olaf's tattoo/house decor as being similar. Maybe the ones in the Baudelaire mansion were well-hidden. |
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Post by Dante on May 8, 2019 13:45:20 GMT -5
I don't really think the presence of a tea set in the Baudelaire mansion is sufficient evidence to say that they had the sugar bowl there; it would be an entirely ordinary thing to possess in their social milieu. It's also been pointed out in the past that the line about Mr. Poe's hat is, of course, something that Lemony ultimately did not write - and therefore was not necessarily accurate.
As for the Baudelaire parents' names, Beatrice was in front of us all along, of course; but Bertrand was indeed never mentioned until TPP, as the Baudelaire father or in any other context than that of the BBRE allusion here. I don't recall if anyone ever connected it to the Baudelaire father; possibly, but we weren't really interested in him, to be honest.
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Post by Foxy on May 9, 2019 6:57:43 GMT -5
I don't recall if anyone ever connected it to the Baudelaire father; possibly, but we weren't really interested in him, to be honest. That's too bad  Notes on the last one hundred thirty pages.p.35 I love the running gag about TDP. p.41-42 It is fun to imagine Snicket doing all the research and interviewing for the books. p.55 Who were the two people?!? p.62 Recently survived a fire... that sure seems to point to Beatrice or Bertrand, since their home recently burned down. p.77 So is someone always watching through these peepholes? p.98 What does that mean? It can't have been raining when the Baudelaire home burned down, because it burned down. p.104 This is somewhat confusing. The logs can't have been used to burn down the Royal Gardens, because they were already burned down. And which student at Prufrock Prep would give an interview about this? Or were they used to burn down the Quagmire mansion? p.116-117 I wish that would have been included in the story arc. p.153 This seems to be a pretty big tip-off that this refers to the Island. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 9, 2019 9:53:13 GMT -5
I don't really think the presence of a tea set in the Baudelaire mansion is sufficient evidence to say that they had the sugar bowl there; it would be an entirely ordinary thing to possess in their social milieu. It does seem like we're meant to connect the presence of a tea set with the possibility of a sugar bowl being there, but since this comes up in TUA, which refers to multiple sugar bowls being used generally by different VFD members, instead of the later books where everyone appears to be looking for one sugar bowl, it's true there isn't necessarily a connection between this and the sugar bowl Lemony and Beatrice stole from Esme. Still, it's interesting to try and construct a backstory for its whereabouts prior to it being thrown out of the window from the Valley of Four Drafts headquarters. p.41-42 It is fun to imagine Snicket doing all the research and interviewing for the books. Yeah, I really like Lemony's descriptions of his interview process. Olaf is one obvious candidate, and maybe Lemony is the other person? It would explain how he knows so much about the Baudelaires' lives. I agree, this line doesn't really seem to be talking about Quigley. It's creepy to think of Olaf spying on the Baudelaires, but that explains some of his actions in TBB, where he always seems to know what the children have been doing. I think this is referring to the Royal Gardens arson. The most obvious thing to assume is that they were used to burn down the Quagmire mansion, but I don't know when Lemony would have interviewed Duncan and Isadora. Maybe this line is referring to the home of the orphans at Prufrock Prep whom Kit recruits into VFD. |
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Post by Dante on May 9, 2019 16:07:55 GMT -5
p.98 What does that mean? It can't have been raining when the Baudelaire home burned down, because it burned down. Consider pages 184-185 of the U.A., regarding the current state of Valorous Farms Dairy. |
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Post by Foxy on May 10, 2019 6:47:34 GMT -5
p.104 This is somewhat confusing. The logs can't have been used to burn down the Royal Gardens, because they were already burned down. And which student at Prufrock Prep would give an interview about this? Or were they used to burn down the Quagmire mansion? The most obvious thing to assume is that they were used to burn down the Quagmire mansion, but I don't know when Lemony would have interviewed Duncan and Isadora. Maybe this line is referring to the home of the orphans at Prufrock Prep whom Kit recruits into VFD. That's pretty messed up; Olaf used the logs the Baudelaires cut to burn down their future friends' home and kill their parents. p.98 What does that mean? It can't have been raining when the Baudelaire home burned down, because it burned down. Consider pages 184-185 of the U.A., regarding the current state of Valorous Farms Dairy. Ooh, I had not thought of that. Now I am picturing the weird-looking photo. I still don't understand how a thunderstorm could have affected a photograph in that way. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 12, 2019 11:07:13 GMT -5
Rare Edition Notes
The existence of these supports the idea that Lemony updated various passages of his books over time, which could explain some of the inconsistencies.
The idea that the Baudelaire parents 'encouraged [the children] to leave the house' is an interesting one, and the Netflix show really emphasised this. I don't know what to make of the comment about the trolley and the hotel. Presumably, at the time of writing, this was meant to be Hotel Denouement, but TPP contradicts this. Still, it's not that problematic, since it could refer to any hotel.
The note on the official fire department reveals its corruption, but it could be worth considering that they might not always have been as corrupt as Lemony implies here. In the Netflix show, OFD was headed by Olaf's father, which adds another interesting element to the organisation, even if it isn't canon to the books. Since Lemony thinks 'O' stands for a person's name, I guess it's possible Olaf could have inherited leadership of the department.
'the Baudelaires had received a visitor who had no manners whatsoever.' So, the Baudelaires seem to have invited Olaf to their house on the day of the fire.
The bench with the ring on it actually makes it into TPP. I think the Royal Gardens fire is brought up again in TGG.
'I have reason to believe that the poisonous plant Justice Strauss referred to was removed from the Royal Gardens prior to its destruction.' And seems to be in Mr Poe's house, but I don't think he would knowingly have committed a crime. Maybe someone convinced him to take it.
Interesting that Gorgon is capitalised. Does that mean it's a person? Same for Quisling, although I think that word usually isn't spelt with a lowercase 'q'.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on May 12, 2019 14:34:52 GMT -5
My personal interpretation of that line about the chopped logs is not that they were used for a fire (though they certainly could have been) but rather that Olaf was simply making them do strenuous work to take up their time and energy so they would be too exhausted to work out/stop his plans, as he did with S.O.R.E. in TAA. Part of my reason for thinking this is that the note on this passage in TBBRE also leads back to the notes on page 18, one of which mentions Doldrum Drive and references the Doldrums from Norton Juster’s ‘The Phantom Tollbooth’. In TPT the Doldrums are a place where nothing happens, inducing listlessness and lethargy, and indeed ‘doldrums’ in general refer to a state of apathy and inactivity. So I’ve always supposed that Olaf was trying to put the Baudelaires in such a state by forcing them to carry out many tedious, exhausting, and mind-numbing chores.
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Post by Foxy on May 12, 2019 15:15:09 GMT -5
'the Baudelaires had received a visitor who had no manners whatsoever.' So, the Baudelaires seem to have invited Olaf to their house on the day of the fire. Does received mean invited, or does it mean Count Olaf showed up on their doorstep and they allowed him to enter? Wait, how did the plant end up in Mr. Poe's house? My personal interpretation of that line about the chopped logs is not that they were used for a fire (though they certainly could have been) but rather that Olaf was simply making them do strenuous work to take up their time and energy so they would be too exhausted to work out/stop his plans, as he did with S.O.R.E. in TAA. Part of my reason for thinking this is that the note on this passage in TBBRE also leads back to the notes on page 18, one of which mentions Doldrum Drive and references the Doldrums from Norton Juster’s ‘The Phantom Tollbooth’. In TPT the Doldrums are a place where nothing happens, inducing listlessness and lethargy, and indeed ‘doldrums’ in general refer to a state of apathy and inactivity. So I’ve always supposed that Olaf was trying to put the Baudelaires in such a state by forcing them to carry out many tedious, exhausting, and mind-numbing chores. Ooh, thank you for the reference to The Phantom Tollbooth! I have only read the first few chapters of that book. Your interpretation makes sense. |
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Post by Dante on May 13, 2019 4:16:24 GMT -5
'I have reason to believe that the poisonous plant Justice Strauss referred to was removed from the Royal Gardens prior to its destruction.' And seems to be in Mr Poe's house, but I don't think he would knowingly have committed a crime. Maybe someone convinced him to take it. The poisonous plant has been mooted as a possible item kept under Mr. Poe's hat, because of the note to page 134 cross-referencing pages 6, 18, and 62; and, as you note, the scent of a "ghastly flower" in his house (p. 13). With that said, it's a dropped plot point, so the potential plotline here could be anything we want. I wonder if it presages TGG and the Medusoid Mycelium? There's been some debate over the years as to whether these are meant to represent the names of characters; especially back while the series was still being released, and there was some possibility that characters bearing such names might appear. My view is that there was no necessity for them to be included in the list, with capitals, if they did not represent potential character names; the fact that no character ever appears with these names is beside the point (though gorgons are referenced in TGG, of course). In retrospect, I wonder if Handler was seeding possible names for the sinister duo. My personal interpretation of that line about the chopped logs is not that they were used for a fire (though they certainly could have been) but rather that Olaf was simply making them do strenuous work to take up their time and energy so they would be too exhausted to work out/stop his plans, as he did with S.O.R.E. in TAA. Part of my reason for thinking this is that the note on this passage in TBBRE also leads back to the notes on page 18, one of which mentions Doldrum Drive and references the Doldrums from Norton Juster’s ‘The Phantom Tollbooth’. In TPT the Doldrums are a place where nothing happens, inducing listlessness and lethargy, and indeed ‘doldrums’ in general refer to a state of apathy and inactivity. So I’ve always supposed that Olaf was trying to put the Baudelaires in such a state by forcing them to carry out many tedious, exhausting, and mind-numbing chores. The logs have been a source of some confusion over the years, but this does seem to be the best explanation. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 13, 2019 16:00:04 GMT -5
Does received mean invited, or does it mean Count Olaf showed up on their doorstep and they allowed him to enter? You're right, it doesn't necessarily mean they invited him - I guess I was just taking that line in conjunction with Beatrice and Bertrand sending the children out of the house, and assuming the 'business' they had to deal with was talking to Olaf, which would only make sense if they invited him. It doesn't have to be read that way, though. I assumed that the mention of the smell of Edgar and Albert's bedroom meant the plant was in the house, but like I said in my other post, I'm not sure how or why Poe would have taken it. |
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