Could the Baudelaire parents actually be the kidnappers?

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

We have eyewitnesses that they saw Beatrice pregnant with a baby on the island. She wrote that she would call her Violet or Lemony. We have two eyewitnesses that Beatrice was pregnant with a third child: Violet and Klaus. They followed Beatrice's pregnancy, and this is recorded in the books. Sunny has such a good memory that she vaguely remembers her own birth, and she was a few weeks old when she had fun together with Beatrice and Bertrand, as well as Violet and Klaus at a fountain.

Violet also has the excellent memory, and remembers a time before Klaus was born. And, I'd like to point out that Sunny's first swim report is full of evidence that Beatrice and Bertrand were still VFD.

[Hermes]

We know that VFD kidnappees are not simply brought up by their kidnappers, but sent around the world for training, and then brought to VFD headquarters. We also know that they are allowed to visit their families from time to time. So I don't think the Baudelaires can be deceived about who their parents are.

I agree with Jean that Bertrand and Beatrice are still VFD; there's also the poyzon darts incident, which happened when V and K were alive and old enough to rememeber it, and the complicated story involving a rubbish bin, which happened after Sunny was born.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

I just want to add that according to Dante, there is no conclusive evidence as to when the incident involving the poison darts happened. According to Dante, the children's narrative could be a story their parents told them. I can understand why Dante thinks so, however I don't really agree with that. The way Klaus narrates the events, from the fact that his parents took a taxi to the opera because their car didn't work, seems to me the perspective of someone who has experienced this: he saw the parents dressed for opera entering in the car, and saw how frustrated they were when they realized the car didn't work. And then they saw a lot of unusual things happen like the fact that the parents had to take a taxi, something Klaus seems to have seen happen only once. Unusually, Beatrice brought home a poster of the opera.

[Hermes]

Dante accepted that that theory was possible (I mean, you have to believe weird things sometimes to overcome all the continuity problems), but he saw it as unnatural; his preferred theory was the same as ours, that it happened in V and K's lifetime.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

What we call "kidnapping" is actually part of a VFD initiation rite. At least, it's been that way since the Great Schism. The infrequent questions found in LSTUA and also the LSTUA building committee meeting make it clear that, at the time the meeting took place, the fire extinguishing side of which Beatrice and Bertrand were a part, were asking parents' permission to children were taken by the ankles to a VFD training center.TE shows that the children were actually invited, to be taken away.  The problem with the initiation rite is that the child does not always realize that he has been invited. What if she inadvertently asks "What was that noise outside?" and the parents inadvertently answer "nothing", permission has already been given. Bertrand and Beatrice, however, knowingly did not give permission. They always answered "the wind" to that question, even on windless nights. So they didn't want the children to be taken, because if they wanted to, they would have been.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

This excerpt is just evidence that Beatrice and Bertrand did not want the children taken. Children are taken by VFD in order to receive theoretical training in a type of school. This is evident in TBL. After theoretical training, they undergo practical training. This is also evident in TBL and ATWQ.

However, instead of agreeing that Violet, Klaus, and Sunny had standard VFD training, Beatrice and Bertrand decided that they would provide the children's training themselves. This excerpt you quoted shows that the training provided by them was going very well. 

The secrets that Olaf could reveal certainly involved shocking truths about their parents or about the secret organization their parents supported. There are several shocking secrets possible, and Captain W seems to know some of them. Fernald pointed out that the Baudelaires' parents had in fact already done things the children would find reprehensible. Things involving poison darts. 

There's a possibility that Olaf is referring to this particular secret, but he could also be talking about other things. Unfortunately we will never know. But we can make fanfics about it! Have you ever read "Untie My Silence Knot" I wrote? I touch on this subject subtly.

[Optimism is my Phil-osophy]

Well... I think we've reached the field of headcanons and guesswork. Still, I'm not against it. I think we can still justify our ideas without any problems. That said, I think I need to be clearer on what I'm stating. I'm not saying Beatrice and Bertrand are against VFD. I am saying that the parents of the Baudelaires do not want their children to have formal training given at a VFD school. And I am saying that the "kidnapping" of children is intended to initiate this formal training. As you said, there are other ways to get into VFD. These other ways are more unusual. But apparently Beatrice Jr entered VFD literally volunteering quite clearly. She did, however, take formal VFD training. But apparently Fiona has not had formal VFD training. Everything she knows about the organization seems to have been taught by her stepfather. However, the training Captain W gave Fiona was much clearer than the training given by Beatrice and Bertrand. The couple decided to teach the children the skills that formal VFD training would give them, but not the information that formal VFD training would give them. I agree that at some point, they would give the kids the information too. But something changed in the Baudelaires' lives that motivated them not to share this information with the children. This happened when Violet was still a baby. Beatrice sang Violet a song that broadcast information about VFD. But for some reason she stopped singing, and she didn't repeat that song to Klaus or Sunny. This is implied by the memories Violet claims to have in TSS.

Oct 18, 2021 11:58:14 GMT -5 @lsandthebooks said:

If the parents didn't want that, why would they make a will that specified that the kids live with a family member?

It's interesting for you to comment that everything is a cycle. I feel like Dante must have felt when I started questioning him. I don't want to sound dogmatic like him, though. About everything being a cycle, I find it interesting to take a few steps back and observe that the cycle is bigger than you think. I mean, VFD is an ancient organization, one of the first volunteers living in the time of the ancient Greeks according to a quote from Dewey in TPP about frogs. It is true that there have been many names for the organization, but there have also been many schisms. So, schisms are caused when people in the organization fail to agree with some factors that exist in the organization even though they still agree with other factors in the organization. If you totally disagree with the organization, you don't promote or support a schism: you leave the organization.


The cycling behavior that Lemony said existed in VFD was related not to the perpetuation of customs over the centuries, but rather to the fact that schisms occur from time to time. The cycle is as follows: 1 - Tired of so much violence, some people organize to promote peace. 2 - Methods to promote peace prove ineffective, and people with ideas that involve bringing peace through violence accumulate within the organization. These are beginning to rival those who want to promote peace through knowledge and technology. 3 - There is a war within the organization. (schism). 4. - The result of the war is three factions: the violent, the pacifists who value knowledge and technology, and those who are so terrified that they start promoting hermitism (like the city of VFD in TVV or the island in TE) . 4 - The pacifist group creates means to try to prevent anyone from entering the organization as it suffers attacks without retaliating from the violent group. 5 - The pacifist group splits again, as some are tired of being targets of attacks. (schism) 6 - The pacifist group dissolves almost completely, as many begin to realize that they are no longer helping to promote peace but are more focused on their own internal problems and not on helping the world to be a peaceful place. 7 - Violence spreads out of control, as there is no longer a group of people organized to promote peace. 8 - tired of so much violence, some people organize themselves to try to promote peace.

On why Baudelaires parents write that their children should stay with some relative... Well, that's normal and expected of any parent. Strange it would be if they specified that the children should be with a person who is not related, and that would set up evidence that they wanted to leave the children in the care of someone in the organization rather than a relative. The fact that they decided, in the event of death, that the children would stay with relatives only underscores the fact that they didn't want the children to end up with someone with VFD.

Why did they have a mansion in a VFD neighborhood?

As I highlighted in my fanfic, Beatrice and Bertrand were members of VFD. They took care of VFD properties, VFD money and VFD books. Because VFD is a secret organization, the organization's money and resources need to be in the name of individuals and families, rather than in the name of legal entities. That's why Olaf wants to steal the Baudelaires' inheritance, not just any money. Olaf wants to take VFD resources and burn VFD properties and books. As he states in TGG, he wants to destroy VFD and not just get rich.

It mentions multiples times throughout the books that the parents were still VFD members.

Yes they are VFD members. What they don't want is for their children to have formal VFD training.

like how in the Netflix series, the Quagmire parents went on a mission. They were similar to the Baudelaire parents because their kids weren't taken at young ages either.

The training the Quagmires received was different from the training the Baudelaires received. All Quagmires have evidence that they know more about VFD and have even been very active volunteers in VFD. Whether they received formal training at a VFD school or not, they received training that included information about VFD and the importance of keeping VFD secret. We noticed the difference in Quigley's behavior while he wore the mask and after he took off the mask. He even said the secret password about not knowing it was a sad occasion. When he didn't get the correct answer, he came up with an attitude that clearly meant to show that he hadn't received information about VFD in his training. But Kit called him a volunteer, and Fionao showed that he had a reputation in VFD. So Quigley received information training, which may have been given at a VFD school (indicating that he was "kidnapped") or it may have been from his own parents. I bet on the second option. But all this just shows that VFD, at the time of the main events described in ASOUE, was in the final stages of the cycle: members were demonstrating that they disagreed with many practices adopted by VFD even though they agreed with the organization's principles and some other practices.

The Baudelaires also hosted VFD parties all the time. They were friends with Lemony, and Lemony is really not anti VFD.

The dinners the children attended do not have evidence of being directly related to other VFD people. Although Beatrice and Bertrand still have relationships with Kit, they have never allowed the children to have direct contact with Lemony, nor with other avowed members of the VFD. After all, all of her tutors were people unknown to the Baudelaires.

And yes, I did read that actually. It was cool. I also like how detailed your theories are.

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Thanks!!