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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 13, 2023 7:31:29 GMT -5
Chapter 4 TBBRE:
19. From a street vendor, they purchased olives after tasting several varieties and choosing their favorites.
My commonplace book contains the following interview:
LS: On the day in question, did three children a fourteen-year-old girl, a boy a bit older than twelve who was wearing glasses, and a young baby with somewhat unusual teeth purchased from you some olives, after tasting several varieties and choosing their favorites?
Vendor: Yes.
This excerpt once again proves that Lemony, despite having started writing TBB around the time of the main events described in TBB, spent some time doing corroborative research based on information he already had. I believe that this information came from the Island book, so the publication of TBB in Lemony's universe happened after the end of the main events described throughout ASOUE. The Island book evidently contained information that the Baudelaires themselves wrote about their sufferings, thoughts, and private conversations. After having this information, Lemony decided to confirm what had been written, so that what he wrote would be credible. Was that a retcom on Daniel Handler's part? Probably yes, but a retcom created at the time of publication of TBBRE in our universe and LSTUA. According to Daniel Handler, he actually sketched Lemony Snicket's life story, so this is perfectly fine.
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21. . . . the Fountain of Victorious Finance. . .
Readers of Book the Seventh will remember that fountains are like top hats in that they provide hollow spaces in which things can be hidden (please see my note to number 4), and I imagine the damp surroundings of a fountain's innards would be comforting if the person hiding inside had recently survived a fire.
This note, despite not defining that Beatrice or Bertrand survived the fire, is suggestive: Lemony at this point was considering the possibility that Beatrice had survived the fire. Regardless of whether Beatrice actually survived or not, understanding that Lemony considered this as a possibility when he was researching TBB is important for understanding why he believed Beatrice was actually in the Masked Ball. It is important to understand that the writing and publication of ASOUE in the ASOUE universe took several years.
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Post by MisterM on Feb 13, 2023 15:51:27 GMT -5
Chapter 4 I didn't remember that the children thought of buying poison to kill Count Olaf. I want to point out that this information is completely coming from Violet's mind. This is evidence for my theory that Lemony read the book on the Island, in which the Baudelaires left personal records. Damn, now I can't remember if i referenced that in my fic or not. I definitley wanted too. Ah well, I can't be bothered to go back and check. Anyhow, I believe that in book thirteen there is a line somehwat like 'the children had never considered killing olaf before' even though they do here. |
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Post by Tiran O'Saurus on Feb 13, 2023 16:32:23 GMT -5
Late book morality is completely separate from early book morality. The Baudelaires angst about stealing some keys, while in TWW they hijack an entire sailboat.
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Post by MisterM on Feb 14, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -5
Also thats what being an adult is like. I ain't stealing no keys anymore.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 14, 2023 3:26:34 GMT -5
I think that when Vaiolet thought of buying poison, it was an exaggerated thought, the kind you know you'll never actually carry out. A thought that sometimes women who are exploited by their husbands and who cook for him have. Something like "if I really wanted to end this it would be so easy". And with respect to stealing a boat, well I guess this is like when companies ask employees to leave cars parked with the keys in the ignition. If an emergency happens, any other employee can borrow the car without asking the owner to act in the emergency. In Aunt J's case, it was someone else's life or death situation. But in the case of stealing the key, it was a different situation. They wanted to steal the key to fulfill a desire of their own, related to finding out what happened to their parents. There was no risk of death for them to continue in ignorance. In other words, the feeling of guilt comes from breaking laws because of selfish feelings. Klaus and Sunny didn't feel guilty pretending to be other people to save Violet, or stealing uniforms for the same purpose. That's because again it was a motivation to save someone.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 14, 2023 6:05:58 GMT -5
I just had a controversial opinion. An opinion so controversial that if my past self heard my current self saying it, my past self would kick me. I think that ASOUE's illustrations, at least in TBB, are a bit disruptive to the experience of an adult reading the story. In my imagination, while I read TBB, everything is very realistic and then an illustration appears, beautiful of course, but that sends me to a fantasy universe. Also, I didn't like TBB that much, but now that I'm rereading it, it's a pretty good story in itself. It works pretty well on its own I think. I thought of TBB as just an introduction, but now I understand that it's something more. It's really interesting. Even knowing what will happen, the narration makes each chapter necessary and exciting to read.
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Post by Glittery666 on Feb 14, 2023 9:24:38 GMT -5
Also the guy they stole the boat from has done way worse things to them.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 14, 2023 18:24:48 GMT -5
Chapter 11 - Violet's ability to remember something when she was about 2 years old is first described in TBB chapter 11. Vaiolet remembered events from the time when Klaus was born.
Still in chapter 11, it's the first time I really realize that Olaf's interest in Violet was really lustful. I thought her lust was feigned, and used only to freak her out. However, when talking to Fernald he said something that made Fernald say something like: "I know very well that she is hers." Then he said something like "don't you dare touch her" and Fernald understood the chief's lust behind those words. Fernald himself seems to also have had impure feelings towards Violet, which led him to point out her physical beauty at any given moment, and which led Olaf to admonish him to touch her. I imagine how a girl could feel in this environment, not only oppressive but completely threatening her dignity as a woman and as a teenager.
And since we're talking about sensitive subjects... Are there sanitary pads in the ASOUE universe?
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Post by Tiran O'Saurus on Feb 14, 2023 18:34:28 GMT -5
And since we're talking about sensitive subjects... Are there sanitary pads in the ASOUE universe? Considering the fortnight they spend on the run, followed by a year on an island wearing pure white robes, I'd hope so. |
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 14, 2023 19:41:31 GMT -5
Chapter 3: Snicket claiming that you may eat nothing but Gorgonzola cheese when you grow up is hilarious. Why did VFD make so many paintings of its logo? Or did Olaf paint them himself? Now that we know about VFD and a little about its origin, including what is quoted in ATWQ, we can understand that the history of VFD is like a cycle. The organization even changes the way it operates and even its name (and consequently its logos) over time. The basic idea of "we are volunteers" and "we try to prevent or reduce the effects of evil" remains among those who call themselves volunteers. That being said, Dewey explained that at some point in the past, the organization was much less secretive than it was during the main events of ASOUE. It is from this era that Olaf's mansion comes from. Olaf was raised in a family that had been part of VFD for many years. Maybe generations. The many eyes in the mansion are evidence of this. How his family lost money is not explained, however. I believe they donated their entire fortune to the organization when they died by way of will. Of course, VFD is a secret organization, so the organization's money is in the hands of individuals, not corporations. The parents had to donate the money to someone responsible for guarding the secret organization's money. I gather that the Baudelaire parents were treasurers of the organization. They were "rich" officially speaking, but the money in practice belonged to the secret organization. That's why they couldn't squander money. In fact, they didn't even have servants. They themselves had to take care of the mansion they lived in, so the mansion itself was also an asset of the organization, just as the library itself was an asset of the organization, which is why the library was so big and on so many different subjects. But evidently, the Baudelaire mansion is from a more modern era than the Olaf mansion. It was already necessary to hide VFD properties so that they could be protected from haters of the organization. |
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 16, 2023 15:30:06 GMT -5
I finally finished TBB. And in fact I liked it more than the first time I read it. It's unfortunate that there is a major plot hole as to who may or may not be the guardians of the Baudelaires. But, I can live with it. It is to be assumed that in some way all legal guardians are some distant relative of theirs, even if this is not explicit. The letter to the editor is also very important to me. It is evident that the author thought of Lemony Snicket as someone who traveled the world while writing and sending manuscripts to the publisher. Lemony was not someone who was stalking the Baudelaires. At the time of publication of asoue, several years had passed since the main events described in asoue. I think this is a fundamental principle and the author's intention from the beginning is never to be abandoned. Any apparent discrepancies in this way of thinking should not be taken as evidence that this way of thinking is wrong. There are other ways to resolve these apparent contradictions, without breaking the main logic of Lemony Snicket's narration: the narrator is in the future a few years ahead of the point of view of the main events narrated in the story. Lemony is a biographical researcher, not a stalker. That's an interesting question. The answer needs to include some important features, especially now that we know the rest of the series. Whoever sent Mr. Poe didn't want the children to end up in VFD's hands. This behavior is replicated in TGG and TPP by an alleged JS. As bad as he is, Poe is neither part of the arsonists nor the volunteers. Apparently because of this, the children already knew him. Beatrice and Bertrand did not want their children to go to VFD. So the person who sent Poe knew the parents' wishes and respected them. Similarly, in TPP, Poe and Charles were given specific information to rescue the Baudelaires. Both are not members of VFD, so it is assumed that the same person, or different people with the same motivation, was behind the two situations. On TGG, the person identified himself to Poe and Charles as JS. Another factor is that the person had to contact Poe by telegram, which ensured the speed of the message and Poe's action. And finally, the person in question would need to be quickly informed about the fire. I believe the only person who meets all the requirements is none other than Lemony Snicket. So, canonically, Lemony loved Beatrice, and for that reason he would be inclined to comply with her wishes even if he didn't agree. Caninely he learned about the fire quickly, to the point where he was able to send a quick message (possibly a telegram) to Mister Helquist while the fire was still in progress. Lemony had the information about the fire, the motivation to send someone from outside the VFD to pick up the children, the knowledge of Beatrice's family matters, and the ability to send a telegram. He also had reason to act quickly, before VFD members found the children and recruited them. It is interesting that possibly all of the children's problems were caused by this. If they had been recruited by the fire-putting side instead of taken in by Poe, they would have faced different challenges, but they would have been less problematic challenges I think. Based on this, I also believe that one of TPP's JS is Lemony Snicket pretending to be JS. |
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 25, 2023 7:40:27 GMT -5
Ch. 3: I'm pretty sure this has been discussed at length, but it is still bewildering to me that none of the Baudelaire parents' noble friends were successful in reaching the children. In any case, why didn't the kids try to get ahold of them? Surely they had a phone number? I really like the way I portray Beatrice and Bertrand in my Fanfic Untie My Silence Knot (I hope you can read it if you haven't already.) For me they lived a fake life, with fragile relationships and to make matters worse they were part of VFD but didn't want their children to be part of VFD, which indicates that they were unhappy with the secret organization, but at the same time they couldn't get out of it. They were in limbo. One of the parents' blood brothers was evidently not part of the organization. He may have been initiated and refused to stay. Either way, the Baudelaire family was handicapped by the lies they were forced to tell and the secrets they had to keep. They no longer had real friends, either inside or outside the organization. They were probably frowned upon by their closest relatives and their attitude bothered even VFD loyal members. In other words, the "friends" and relatives didn't want contact with the orphans. |
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