OFFICIAL BOOK TWELVE DICUSSION THREAD.

[SnicketFires]

This is the thread for people who have finished Book the Twelfth to discuss its contents and the mysteries within. Please do not make a thread of your own, just post in here. Obviously, there will be spoilers, so please don't read it if you don't want to get spoiled.

NOTE: Please post in this thread only if you have finished Book Twelve. I do not want this thread to become another countdown or spoiler thread. I don't want to have to have to punish people.

Thank you. Let the games begin.

[hobo2312]

Well, I guess we can start with the big question on my mind - Is the nameless man in chapter 10 Lemony Snicket?

Snicket know an awful lot about this man. He also has a musical instrument placed carefully on the back seat. Given the concertina jokes, this could be Lemony's accordian. He also has a monogrammed napkin, so he's apparently a volunteer. He also states that he knows if the orphans did accompany him, they would have suffered many more unfortunate events, enough for 13 more books. That sounds like Snicket to me.

Whoever he is, I'm pretty sure that he has the sugar bowl as well. Note the small object on his passenger seat, "still damp from its hiding place." Any thoughts?

[Snicket89]

Well since my B&N had a midnight selling I already bought, read, and absorbed teh contents of this book but I think it fair to wait until we actually have ppl who have read it so I will come back and post later, i hope you pplz enjoy it ^_^

[doom]

I couldn't wait, so I got it this morning. It was so good! Although a bit confusing at parts. I've got to discuss it.

Olaf says somewhere in it that Fernald and Fiona stole the submarine from him. Does this mean they've both done something noble? I hope they'll make an appearance in the next book to sort things out.

Are Justice Strauss and Jerome Squalor both J.S.? TPP (yay, I get to use its initials) seemed to imply that. I didn't really like that they became volunteers. It seemed too convenient that they became volunteers after all the other things that had happened. But they were still unhelpful, at least.

Was there any Sebald code? There were plenty of bells. I found this quote on page 67:

"'Ring!' cried either Ernest or Frank 'Ring! I shouldn't have to tell you the bell's your signal . We can't keep our guests waiting for even an instant. You can tell which of our guests is ringing [does that mean the code is over?] by the number on the bell. If the number written on the bell was 469, for example, you would know that one of our Portuguese guests required assistance. Are you paying attention? The bell marked 674 indicates our associates in the lumber industry, as the number 674 means lumber processing or wood products in the Dewey Decimal System. We can't make enemies out of important guests! The number 371 indicates educational guests. Please be nice to them, too, although they're much less important. Respond to all of your guests when you hear that ring!'"

"I can't tell the for required our lumber can educational less that". Uh...right. Maybe I messed it up or something? It seems like a code because later it says: "The manager frowned, as if the middle Baudelaire had given him the wrong answer."

I think that may very well be Lemony in chapter 10. I thought I caught a few references to Lemony being there. None of which I can find right now, of course, but I'll keep looking.

Oh, and the Baudelaires' father's name is apparently Bertrand.

[Juan Roberto Montoya De Toledo]

I noticed that, as during the backgammon game, they didn't mention anyone else being there.

[Dante]

The mysterious man in Chapter Ten was right on my mind, too. Whether or not he's Lemony - I think he might be, but either way, we must also wonder who the woman in the trunk is - he has the sugar bowl. It fell into the pond, and the item on the passenger seat was damp.

Also, there's a quote which I think pretty much confirms that at least part of B13 is on the island with a law against anyone taking its fruit.

As the Baudelaire orphans followed the mysterious man out of the hotel and through the cloud of steam to the edge of the reflective pond, the denouement of their story was fast approaching, but the end of their story still waited for them, like a secret covered in fog, or a distant island in the midst of a troubled sea, whose waves raged against the shores of a city and the walls of a perplexing hotel.

TPP – p177-178

I don't think Justice Strauss or Jerome Squalor were J.S. They both said that they kept on finding messages left for J.S., and neither of them mention getting a telegram from Quigley, or sending Geraldine Julienne to the beach. I think there's still at least one J.S. left.

Also, amazing ending. It was just so good. I couldn't tell what the clue was in the final picture, though - could it have been the water tower? Or the flock of birds?

At one point in the book, Lemony said that Quigley, Hector etc. were battling a villain with hooks instead of hands. Fernald and Fiona may have defected from Olaf, but they're still committing treacherous acts for unclear reasons.

[Juan Roberto Montoya De Toledo]

ffwf said:

I couldn't tell what the clue was in the final picture, though - could it have been the water tower? Or the flock of birds?

I wouldn't have noticed the water tower, thanks for pointing it out.

It's a shame they left Justice Strauss to die.

[doom]

Ah, good point about J.S. and Fernald. I must have missed those parts.

The flock of birds seemed to be somewhat related to the book, what with the crows and everything. Plus another book related to birds might be too repetitive. I did notice that on the letter to the editor at the end, on the napkin, that there's a picture of a boat. Could this be a clue? Then again, it's sort of obvious that they'll be on a boat.

[Juan Roberto Montoya De Toledo]

Maybe not for all the book.

[Dante]

That's another thing. So many people die - or are implied to die. Justice Strauss, Mr. Poe, Esmé Squalor, Carmelita Spats (her costume was hilarious)... Since B13 apparently takes place far away from the city, then I guess many of the deaths aren't particularly important.

Finally: I wonder if the Denouement triplets are D., E. and F. on the family tree. If they are, then it's not a family tree. However, it's not a recruitment tree either, as they'd be too young to recruit other people (and then we'd have a villain recruiting heroes, and heroes recruiting villains). So, in conclusion, the Denouement triplets aren't D., E. and F.

Really final: I hope we find out more about Olaf's past in the next book. His story intrigues me, especially since it appears that the Baudelaire parents murdered his parents.

[Juan Roberto Montoya De Toledo]

Maybe they felt it was necessary.

[darciek]

Was there any Sebald code? There were plenty of bells. I found this quote on page 67:

"'Ring!' cried either Ernest or Frank 'Ring! I shouldn't have to tell you the bell's your signal . We can't keep our guests waiting for even an instant. You can tell which of our guests is ringing [does that mean the code is over?] by the number on the bell. If the number written on the bell was 469, for example, you would know that one of our Portuguese guests required assistance. Are you paying attention? The bell marked 674 indicates our associates in the lumber industry, as the number 674 means lumber processing or wood products in the Dewey Decimal System. We can't make enemies out of important guests! The number 371 indicates educational guests. Please be nice to them, too, although they're much less important. Respond to all of your guests when you hear that ring!'"

This passage is slightly different in my book:"You can tell which guest..." vs. "You can tell which of our guests..." which makes the Sebald-coded message (I think):

"I can't tell if you are in or enemies please respond"

[Dante]

Why, so it does... I don't think any Sebald code outside the U.A. has made sense before.

[jcgsebald]

The twelfth book is my favorite unless I like Book thirteen better.

[joshspazjosh]

Oh man.

Before this book, IMO, #10 was the best, and #11 was the worst.

DH has redeemed himself, like, twentyfold with this book. Amazing. And there's stuff to research too. . .the room numbers can give us bunches of clues, for one.

"I don't care about the steam! I just like the smell of hot wood!"