OFFICIAL BOOK TWELVE DICUSSION THREAD.

[Efogoto]

In my youth (30 years ago) I recall my sister reading a book with two main characters Frank and Ernest and the way they spoke to each other: "Well, earnestly, Frank" and "Frankly, Ernest". I never read it myself and can't recall title or author, drat. Must remember to ask my sister.

[Dante]

I think Olaf's a bit older than the Baudelaire parents, and you don't have to be young to be an orphan. Speaking of which, the father is apparently Bertrand, previously mentioned in the BBRE as a lion-tamer, like Beatrice. Say, was Beatrice mentioned at all in this book? I don't think she was.

I loved all the returning characters. Hal was particularly unexpected. The person who kept on mentioning their mother (I think in the final pages then this person was implied to be female) was hilarious.

Some of the lines in this book were great - mainly Olaf's. "I always carry matches on my person, just like my enemies always carry kindling." "We're all in the same boat now."

Oh, and I loved the coaster-ring thing. Nice throwback to the BBRE. Of course, it means that that clue now implicates Olaf just a little less.

Sunny growing up has been charming. I liked her fuller sentences in this book, and her growing intelligence. Oh, and "Burn down hotel." High point of the book.

Yes, it's odd that the Nameless Novel pictures apparently only referred to a single, seemingly-insignificant sentence. And that they aren't in the right order first time round.

Long passage analysis: The chemist was Colette - who did she recognise?
The ambidextrous man in the basement was Kevin, and he probably spotted Sunny turning the laundry room door into a Vernacularly Fastened Door - unless he saw something else. Wasn't a J.S. meant to be lurking in the basement?
The next part refers to the Nameless Novel pictures, which head the Not Chapters, and which, in the first Not Chapter and on TheNamelessNovel.com, are apparently in the wrong order.
Others can do the rest, as I have to go.

[Efogoto]

Anyone else catch the line on page 229 where:

"Please," Sunny said, joining her sisters.

Puts Klaus in a whole new category, don't it?

[PJ]

ffwf said:

Say, was Beatrice mentioned at all in this book? I don't think she was.

Esmé mentioned that Beatrice stole the sugar bowl from her. To my utter disgust, the Baudelaires didn't react at all, which disproves the Beatrice = Baudmum theory.

Damnit, there were so many things to talk about, and I've forgotten them all....

Oh, right. I found it a bit odd that Quigley STOLE a helicopter to go after his siblings. Kinda dodgy.

In fact, VFD as a whole seemed kind of strange. I mean, Kit swerving into the bushes just because the taxi behind her MIGHT be an enemy? And the whole picnic travelling seperately thing...funny, but strange.
Not to mention sending three children to spy on potential murderers, and judging people by if they use coasters or not.

The courtroom swindle was a nice touch, I think. Didn't see that coming, I must admit.


Edit:
As to Carmelita and Esmé dying:
"...and indeed the children never argued with either unpleasant female again." TPP page 334.

Mr. Poe:
"I can't leave,...I'm still in charge of the Baudelaire's affairs, and their parents' fort-" and the Baudelaires were taken away from the banker one last time."

At least it sounds like Nero, Geraldine, Sir, Hugo, Collete and Kevin will be out of the picture. They irritated me a lot.

Too bad about Strauss, though...

[Efogoto]

Room 296 (296: Judaism) is mentioned twice:

p.63: Room 296, which is occupied by a somewhat cranky rabbi.

p. 152: In Room 296, a volunteer suddenly realized that the Hebrew language is read from right to left rather than left to right, which meant that it should be read from left to right rather than right to left in the mirror ...

It seems to me that the volunteer is not the occupant of the room, but is searching it for something, something in print.

Interestingly, the backwards sentences in Chapter Two are read left to right in the mirror, not right to left.

[Efogoto]

What's up with the picture on page 175 with six guys in step and the last not, all of them carrying long-handled tools and dressed quite differently? It looks a variation of the seven dwarfs of sorts.

[Tay Sachs]

I can't believe Esme is dead.

[PJ]

efogoto said:

What's up with the picture on page 175 with six guys in step and the last not, all of them carrying long-handled tools and dressed quite differently? It looks a variation of the seven dwarfs of sorts.

Yes, that was the chapter in which they explained what the denouement of several stories were, including Snow White.

Edit:
And, Dante, where did it say that a hook-handed man attacked them? I don't recall that at all.

And I like the idea that Handler has disposed of so many characters. Now, as soon as the Bauds and Olaf arrive at their destination, there will be a final confrontation, probably with Lemony, perhaps also with Kit, and the surviving Baudelaire Parent.

Also, perhaps the clue in the last picture is the ship itself? The ship on the napkin + the ship their sailing on...I dunno, perhaps, at last, we will meet the FFP? And that island sounds quite promising, too.

Edit 2:
And I loved how Olaf hesitated when he was pointing the gun at Dewey. It seems that as the Baudelaires become more and more villanious, Olaf is lessening, slightly.

And it was great how Olaf lost his laugh; Handler must have realised it was an awful thing, and got rid of it. Good on him.

Edit the Third:
On page 248 Sunny says: "Henribergson" who was a famous French Philosopher. Just thought I'd say that.

Edit 4:
Page 251 & 252:
"...any more than I know if it would have been better for me had I decided to continue my life's work rather than researching the Baudelaires' story..."

What life's work? Surely not the Snicket file....

And I think the taxi driver is Lemony. I mean, why would he conceal the identity of the man from us? And how come his voice sounds familiar to the Baudelaires?

Though, to be honest, I must admit that I don't see Lemony smoking.


Edit 5:
Yeah, yeah, shut up. No one is posting, so I have to keep editing, because I keep finding new stuff. I was just wondering what the hell that small light brown thing is on the middle of the brown hat of of the man at the bottom of the cover.

And I've already sent Tragedy two theories, concerning the VFD Meeting Transcription and the Schism, and wether or not the Baudelaire parents are murderers.

[Celinra]

I'll comment on some of the other stuff that's been said later, but I just realized this passage, on page 185:

"They're staying in the TNEMEUONED LETOH, while the real last safe place - the catalog - is hidden safely at the bottom of the pond, in underwater rooms organized in a mirror image of the hotel itself. Our enemies could burn the entire building to the ground, but the most important secrets would be safe."

So, think they'll go back and try to find these secrets?

[PJ]

Eh, I'm more in favour of another volunteer getting the catalog....but do any other volunteers actually know were the catalog is?
Praps the Baudelaires WILL go....

[Antenora]

I think Sunny's language is getting more complex. She says "Bildungsroman" at one point, which is a term for a story about growing up and learning.

The small light brown thing just looks like a reflection on his hat.

I'm slightly disappointed that we still can't seem to tell whom everyone on the cover is. The woman with golden glasses is Kit, judging by her hair(although that doesn't fit with the story, as she never entered the hotel), and I still think the woman in the purple-ish coat is Collette and Hugo is next to her, but the others I'm not sure of.

Comprehensive Dewey Decimal list: www.tnrdlib.bc.ca/dewey.html
Seems the hotel has a few unassigned rooms.

celinra said:

I'll comment on some of the other stuff that's been said later, but I just realized this passage, on page 185:

"They're staying in the TNEMEUONED LETOH, while the real last safe place - the catalog - is hidden safely at the bottom of the pond, in underwater rooms organized in a mirror image of the hotel itself. Our enemies could burn the entire building to the ground, but the most important secrets would be safe."

So, think they'll go back and try to find these secrets?

Since the Baudelaires are now at sea, they might take a passageway back to the Hotel's pond.

[Andrew]

Woah- finished it. I have to say this was very emotional... But why are people saying that the Baudelaires left Justice Strauss to die? They didn't- it was her choice, she said she wouldn't leave the scene of the crime... And thank goodness that Olaf dumped Esmé. I love Carmelita's new phase of being a tap-dancing ballerina fairy princess veterenanian or a ballplaying cowboy superhero soldier pirate- it's brilliant.

Can't wait for book 13 ;D

[PJ]

tocuna said:

Since the Baudelaires are now at sea, they might take a passageway back to the Hotel's pond.

Ah! Excellent! An underground sea passage!
That would explain that woman in the diving suit just fine; she was probably the one that fetched the sugar bowl from the pond and then hid in the back of the taxi-car.

[Antenora]

I'm sad about Justice Strauss' death, less so about various other characters who probably died.

philipjucker said:

Eh, I'm more in favour of another volunteer getting the catalog....but do any other volunteers actually know were the catalog is?
Praps the Baudelaires WILL go....

Possibly, the Baudelaires will accompany some other volunteer. We may run into Widdershins again; I think Kit is planning to meet up with him.

Also, I think I've heard of that book involving Frank and Ernest that you mentioned, Efogoto.

[PJ]

tocuna said:

I'm sad about Justice Strauss' death, less so about various other characters who probably died.

philipjucker said:

Eh, I'm more in favour of another volunteer getting the catalog....but do any other volunteers actually know were the catalog is?
Praps the Baudelaires WILL go....

We may run into Widdershins again; I think Kit is planning to meet up with him.

Yes, she will waterski over to him, and then waterski away again.