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Post by Dante on Aug 21, 2014 16:15:30 GMT -5
"Journalism" was not really an amazing skill. Though even "poetry" ended up having some practical application in the story... but the nature of the Quagmires as a plot device, to hint at important secrets without ever being afforded the chance to reveal them, was never going to work very well with a journalist character.
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Post by gliquey on Aug 22, 2014 3:09:22 GMT -5
"Journalism" was not really an amazing skill. Though even "poetry" ended up having some practical application in the story... but the nature of the Quagmires as a plot device, to hint at important secrets without ever being afforded the chance to reveal them, was never going to work very well with a journalist character. If I remember correctly, in TEE (or possibly TVV), Duncan says something about still being a journalist even while trapped by Olaf because he was taking notes in his commonplace book. His skill almost morphed into researching, which is either the best or the worst skill depending on how you look at it. Klaus can research, but then again, Violet is just as good at "researching" poetry in TGG, and Quigley researches in Monty's library, and all three Baudelaires read in TBB etc. Isadora, despite claiming not to want to hear all the "terrible things" Olaf has told them in TEE, has a commonplace book of her own and probably took nearly as many notes as Duncan - although most (some? all?) would be in couplet form. But since The Daily Punctilio was introduced in TVV and recurred throughout the series, I imagine Duncan could have put his journalism to good use. Similar to Jerome's history of injustice, there could have been an opportunity for Duncan to write something for a newspaper - maybe not the Punctilio, but any noble publication (possibly the unknown one blowing past the Baudelaires at the start of TGG). Then again, we keep coming back to the question How much did the Quagmires know? Do they know what V.F.D. stands for, or do they just think it is a secret organization? Do they think it's a villainous organization or a noble one? Did they read an article on the schism, or a report on the sugar bowl? We see a bit of this with Quigley too, but at least he tells Violet and Klaus that it stands for "Volunteer Fire Department". I'm trying to think of useful skills Duncan could have while trapped in a cage or a fountain, and it's not too easy. Klaus' researching is too generic, while Sunny's biting is based on her young age (which later develops into tasting and cooking). Fiona's and Isadora's are in quite specific areas, with poetry being seemingly useless but working well in TVV. Quigley's is very useful, even if we don't see much of it, and Violet's is maybe the most practical skill. Duncan could have been an expert on birds, but that would just be a setup for TVV with little use in TAA or TEE. |
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zakeno
Catastrophic Captain
"yikes"
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Post by zakeno on Aug 23, 2015 18:13:08 GMT -5
I feel weird about how much I prefer Quigley and Isadora over Duncan. I have absolutely no reason for this whatsoever, but for some reason, while I absolutely adore both Quigley and Isadora I feel comparitively indifferent towards Duncan at best.
I think I'm one of the crowd who likes Quigley the best though. He managed to do a lot of impressive stuff while completely estranged from everyone else- and I think I'm more partial to cartography as a special skill over poetry and journalism.
That being said, the Quagmires are all some of my favorite characters, so really they're all fantastic, lovely, and all good things.
I think, though, the discussion on the usefulness of journalism as a special skill is interesting, considering Moxie being more or less the same thing in ATWQ- but since she has more time with the protagonist in those books, she's able to show off that talent more. I think Duncan's skill in journalism is perfectly useful, just that there wasn't really room for it in the books, and most of it kinda coincided with the idea of commonplace books in the first place, so it never really shined as its own individual skillset.
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Post by J-Bird on Aug 23, 2015 21:42:32 GMT -5
I think the world percieves Duncan and Isadora as thy were in the series; that is to say that as noble as they were, they were either trapped or effectively useless to them. Quigley, however is viewed as the independent, self sufficient, brave, talented, and also noble (not to mention somewhat romantic #Quilet.) As such, the readers admire Quivley more than the other two.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Aug 24, 2015 2:03:20 GMT -5
I think the world percieves Duncan and Isadora as thy were in the series; that is to say that as noble as they were, they were either trapped or effectively useless to them. Quigley, however is viewed as the independent, self sufficient, brave, talented, and also noble (not to mention somewhat romantic #Quilet.) As such, the readers admire Quivley more than the other two. True, and I also see him as the character with more personal development. The earliest chronological event we hear of him is him surviving the fire - passively, because his mother saves him. Then he spends another while in Dr. Montgomery's house, also passively. It's not until the Montgomery fire that he decides to take matters into his own hands. The way I see it, that's the beginning of the journey which shapes him to the independent, skilled survivor we see in TSS. That said, the series' style escalates quite rapidly between TVV and TSS, and new characters are generally more nuanced by the end of the series (think of the characterisation Bruce gets in TSS, as compared to in TRR). I think it's a mark of quality writing that Quigley is undeniably the 'odd one out' of the Quagmires, while Isadora is the only girl - that's how little genders matter in the averse. |
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Post by Dante on Aug 24, 2015 2:52:55 GMT -5
I do think that Isadora's poetry gets a better showing than Duncan's journalism, though; her poetry is, if you like, more visible than journalism. I think zakeno has it right that, while journalism is a potentially potent skill, it just doesn't really fit into the story of ASoUE - whereas Moxie in ATWQ gets more use out of it as she's actually able to pursue investigations and also has an enormous newspaper archive to scour, which feels a lot like journalism in context even if it's actually more like research. Duncan was just unlucky, in other words, to have a skill with limited application and to then be replaced in just about every way that mattered by his literally identical brother.
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Post by gliquey on Aug 24, 2015 3:49:29 GMT -5
I think is very interesting how poetry turned out to be more important than journalism in the series; I think that must have been a conscious choice on the part of Handler (maybe he thought poetry was more interesting or journalism would be too easy). He had plenty of opportunities to give Duncan something to do if he had wanted to - journalism actually features in the series quite a bit, with The Daily Punctilio and Geraldine Julienne, and it certainly could have been a relevant plot point somewhere for telling the Baudelaires where the Quagmires were hidden in TEE or TVV.
But I think Duncan is almost a rubbish version of Klaus, in that both people's skills are carried out by others (every Baudelaire reads; Isadora reads newspapers and researches and keeps commonplace books along with Duncan). But while we see plenty of occasions where Klaus researches and saves the day by himself, I can't think of anywhere where Duncan shined on his own. Any romantic hints between Violet and Duncan (I think he holds her hand or smiles or something at one point in TAA and Sunny kind of alludes to something in TE) are completely overshadowed when Quigley arrives, especially during and shortly after the waterfall scene. By contrast, Isadora appears in every scene Duncan does, gets the more active role in TVV by writing the poetry instead of just researching about the crows, is the only potential love interest for Klaus until TGG (and I think it's more heavily implied there's something between those two) etc.
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Post by Dante on Aug 24, 2015 9:15:54 GMT -5
I don't know that the characterisation difference between Duncan and Isadora is that huge, but it's a lot easier to think of things Isadora did than things Duncan did. You don't really notice it as you're reading the series, because they're presented as a single unit (do they ever appear individually, at all?) and because up until The End there's still a chance for them to come back and do something more - but in retrospect, you see that Duncan is pretty redundant. Netflix, take note?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 19:04:28 GMT -5
I pick all three
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 19:20:40 GMT -5
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Post by quigletisbeautiful on Oct 11, 2015 5:13:47 GMT -5
I like Quigley so much better because duh, he's cute andnI think Duncan is evil and I was once Isadora for Halloween, so i like her.
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Post by quigletisbeautiful on Oct 13, 2015 5:08:00 GMT -5
ALL!!!!!!!!!!!! But I do like Quigley a bit better. Don't ask. *asking* *asking also* |
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Post by Dante on Oct 13, 2015 6:36:58 GMT -5
Some seven years since the post you quote, and almost six since the member in question logged in, I fear you are fated not to get an answer to your question. Please consider carefully in making your posts just how clear a purpose they serve. (In addition, I have removed your personal statement to outside of the quote marks, as it was previously unclear that you had written any new words at all.)
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Post by Emerald Snicket on Oct 13, 2015 13:20:41 GMT -5
Isadora because of her awesome poetry c:
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