Beatrice Questions *spoilers*

[beth667]

1. Is the EXACT reason for LS's documentation of the Baudelaire's misfortune specified? Is it to prove that he did not kill/play a part in Beatrice's demise?

2. Did he kill/help to kill Beatrice?

3. If not, was it Count Olaf? Or was it Esme Squalor?

4. What was the serious crime - referenced on hundreds of websites - that Lemony Snicket helped Beatrice commit before her death? Was it the theft of the sugar bowl?

5. Why did Esme Squalor want with Beatrice?

6. What are the poisoned darts?

Thanks any of you who answer this!

Beth x x x x x

P.S. I also posted this exact same post on the wrong part of the ASOUE board, so if this is confusing sorry . . .

[Dante]

I locked your other thread, as you said you posted it in the wrong place.

1. It's hard to say why Lemony's really documenting the lives of the Baudelaires. Various theories suggest that he was doing so as a tribute to their late mother, Beatrice, who he still loved. Others suggest that, since Brett Helquist's letter in the U.A. implies that Snicket will be blamed for the Baudelaire fire, he's trying to clear his name, as you suggest. Another theory, also suggested by parts of the U.A., is that Snicket sees elements of his own life in the Baudelaires - a miserable life on the run from the same villains and at the mercy of the same inaccurate newspapers - and he wants to ensure the truth of the case is told. I expect it's a mixture of all those.

2. I seriously doubt it. Lemony loved Beatrice and never stopped loving her; he's also repeatedly described himself as a coward. Even if it seemed he had to burn down the Baudelaire mansion for the greater good, I wouldn't have put it past him to flee from that responsibility; he's already running from so much that it wouldn't make a difference (although by the time of TBL he's settled down again, until his niece interferes).

3. This seems more likely. Count Olaf has a strong motive - the Baudelaire parents almost certainly killed his own parents, for reasons unknown (to the reader, and perhaps to Olaf). In TWW, Olaf notes that he's committed arson, but at that point in the series, he hadn't been shown committing arson and his backstory probably hadn't been thought out, and arson only really becomes his trademark from THH onwards. Esmé is also a popular candidate (I'll deal with her motives in the next two questions), as she apparently married Jerome Squalor to gain control of the passageway from the Baudelaire mansion to 667 Dark Avenue (and to the secret apartment above the penthouse that many suspect the existence of). We also know she married Jerome either before or during TBB, as Jerome says in TEE that he wanted to adopt the Baudelaires from the moment he heard about the fire (although you could interpret that as meaning he didn't find out for quite some time). From the passageway, Esmé could have secretly infiltrated and torched the Baudelaire mansion. I personally think she did not, but it's a strong possibility.

4. (In case you aren't aware, the claim comes from 13 Shocking Secrets you'll wish you never knew about Lemony Snicket.) The theft of the sugar bowl seems very likely, as we're pretty clear that it was stolen during a tea party between Esmé and Beatrice, that Esmé thinks Beatrice stole it, but Lemony's outright said that he stole it. The way it's always been framed made it sound to me like Beatrice didn't know Lemony was going to steal the sugar bowl, but perhaps she did, and her job was to distract Esmé while Lemony took the bowl. Another oft-suggested possibility is the murder of Olaf's parents; Lemony was at the opera when it occurred, perhaps playing accordion in the orchestra (references are made to this elsewhere in TPP), and Beatrice and Bertrand Baudelaire are apparently the ones that committed the crime itself, so perhaps Lemony could have been an accomplice of some sort, helping to distract the audience or clear the way, although while he's apparently admitted being there, he's not admitted any responsibility. There's also the fact that 13 Shocking Secrets was probably written by the publishers, and thus its claims may be neither accurate nor canon.

5. As noted above, Esmé thinks Beatrice stole the sugar bowl; given how important it's become since then, Esmé's anger may be justified, but we don't know whether the sugar bowl was important at the time or not (TSS suggests that Lemony took it just to hide evidence in it); alternatively, Esmé may just be consumed with anger at the thought that somebody could trick her and commit a treacherous act better than she could. Or sugar bowls were in at the time and she's never forgotten this assault on her fashionable status. Others have suggested some form of rivalry on a romantic front, but I don't believe there's anything in the books to suggest this.

6. At a performance of the opera La Forza del Destino, Kit Snicket passed a box of poison darts to the Baudelaire parents at the snack bar during the intermission before Esmé Squalor could stop her; poison darts were subsequently used to murder Olaf's parents during that opera (I like to think that they were part of the performance, and were killed off while "dying" on-stage at the denouement). Olaf believes the Baudelaire parents killed his own parents, and Dewey's uncomfortableness when Olaf mentions this, and the fact that nobody contradicts him, suggests that he is right. We don't know how old Olaf was at the time, though; it's unclear whether the Baudelaire parents went to this opera at some point when their children were alive, or related the rather mundane story of how they had to take a taxi to an opera rather than the car at some other point. It's also unclear how old Olaf was at the time; people have pointed to the fact that the poison darts made him "an orphan" as indicating that he was young at the time, but given that Dewey Denouement, an adult, is also referred to as an orphan, then that particular piece of evidence doesn't mean anything. I like to think it was a relatively recent event.

I hope that helps.

[r]

i saw on lemony snickets website that the hook handed man was Beatrice

what was the deel with the poison darts and Beatrice?

Reason for Editing: Mod edit: veritably fixed doubleposting

[Antenora]

r said:

i saw on lemony snickets website that the hook handed man was Beatrice

Yes, that was an April Fools joke from last year, originally from an AuthorTracker e-mail. It's valid only, perhaps, as the premise of a rather nonsensical fanfiction.

what was the deel with the poison darts and Beatrice?

If you've read The Penultimate Peril(or for that matter, my co-moderator's post above) you should know that Beatrice used the darts in a scheme to kill Olaf's parents at the performance of an opera. As mentioned, the timing of this event is somewhat vague.

Also, please refrain from double-posting. I merged your posts.

[beth667]

Sorry for being so dense . . . is the reason for Beatrice's murder of Olaf's parents ever specified? **Theory** Could it be possble that Beatrice believed Olaf's parents played a role in Lemony's - ill-reported - death? Sorry *makes mental note to re-read the Penultimate Peril and stop making self a hassle to wonderful members of 667 Dark Avenue* . . .

[Dante]

No, it's not specified.

I would assume that they were villainous people (look at who their son is; TBL indicates Olaf's always been a nasty piece of work) and that V.F.D. was trying to get rid of them in the most complete way possible. Justifiable yet morally ambiguous, particularly if they'd personally threatened the Baudelaire family or some other volunteer individual(s). But to my recollection, we're really given no details of the motivation for the killing of Olaf's parents, and we get little enough detail on what actually happened (it could conceivably be some horrible accident, I think).

[Jared]

Did they never mention the names of the children's parents and that's why it was such a big reveal that Beatrice was their mother?

[Dante]

That is correct, yes. The Baudelaire parents were always referred to as "the Baudelaire parents," "the Baudelaire mother," "the Baudelaire father," etc. The Baudelaire father's name was revealed - in an offhand comment in a memory - to be Bertrand, but that name had previously been alluded to, in characteristically ambiguous fashion, in The Bad Beginning Rare Edition. The Baudelaire mother's name was revealed, in somewhat ambiguous fashion, to be Beatrice in TBL and The End, but it had been speculated on and hinted at for years beforehand. It's a habit of Snicket's to not generally give out people's names gratuitously; of all the characters introduced, there are many we have no idea of the surname or forename of, and some of them might be quite illuminating if we'd already heard of them elsewhere.

[rockmints12]

i just wonder if beatrice was the baudelaires' mom.

this is kinda off topic, but did you notice that ishmael talked about his student with one ear and dark scraggly hair. and aunt josephine said her mother in law had one ear...

[jster]

rockmints totally agree, she did say that, and that might be another clue

[mikeytogo]

First of all i am new

Second of all, Ismael said a lot of things that we and the Baudelaire's might know. They replied the answers we would have guessed if we read all the books such as who was the owner of lucky smells lumber wood farm? They guessed Sir.