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Post by Dante on Feb 21, 2012 5:24:11 GMT -5
I would take that information with more than a pinch of salt, as Sherry Ann says. Not for no reason is it written so ambiguously. There's a red herring reference right there.
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Post by B. on Feb 21, 2012 11:05:13 GMT -5
The Small print suggests it wasn't written by Handler at all, but I found it interesting nonetheless. Anyhow, more on topic: I think it is rather more fun to leave the sugar bowl a mystery. I actually don't think this will ever be revealed, but I think it is clear that the sugar bowl was one of many.
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Post by friendofvfd on Mar 19, 2012 2:09:41 GMT -5
Hmm, possibly more than one sugar bowl? That's interesting, I've never thought about that before!
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Post by Dante on Mar 19, 2012 4:22:01 GMT -5
I hope we've inspired you, friendofvfd. I think some of the most exciting theories are the ones which require us to think outside the box - that is, outside of the limits of what we thought was possible.
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Post by B. on Mar 19, 2012 11:16:49 GMT -5
One of the main reasons people believe that VFD used sugar bowls to transport important coded information is because it is mentioned in the disguise kit list in TUA. Personally I think the sugar bowls would have had to be very plain, because a sugar bowl with a lavish design might attract the attention of non-volunteers.
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Post by friendofvfd on Mar 21, 2012 13:14:28 GMT -5
Thanks Dante. I thought you were being sarcastic with me at first. (LOL) I do consider myself to be an open-minded person, and I like thinking outside the box. I love hearing other people's theories about certain topics.
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Post by Groge on Mar 23, 2012 13:49:11 GMT -5
Yeah I believe that it will always be a mystery. It's there to make us do what we are doing right now! We've already got the small, logical, detail about it being used by V.F.D to transport information and that's all we really need to know. Yes he could tell us what was in that bowl but it doesn't matter too much. We still read the books and understood the story and what was really important. I like to keep it a mystery personally. The Great Unknown is exactly the same thing. Although I am pretty intrigued at what that could be!
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Post by rambler87 on Nov 12, 2012 16:11:49 GMT -5
I think the 'Sugar bowl' is a some kind of symbol, is idealized place for such thing which were absent in the story - justice and truth - it is the only thing that scared Olaf. Another symbol in this Story is library (or book) - any sort of books which often includes some clues about "Sugar bowl". I read this story once but now i want to read it in original language.
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Post by Dante on Nov 12, 2012 16:32:31 GMT -5
I really like that idea for an allegorical reading of the story, and such readings sit increasingly comfortably along the deficiencies of the literal reading. Good luck getting hold of the original, rambler87.
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Post by zombiesinthesnow on Dec 15, 2012 17:05:42 GMT -5
I have been DYING to share this somewhere.
So in the 13th book, we see the importance of the horseradish and the apples in regards to VFD. I finished reading the thirteenth book the day of its release, and it inspired me to reread the series again. This was a few years ago, but I immediately began TBB after I finished TE.
I then realized something very interesting that Snicket emphasized in the description of Count Olaf's Tower Room. He describes in detail the "bowl of rotting apple cores".
This set something off...perhaps The Sugar Bowl relates to this in some way, and these apples/horseradish have a deeper meaning, and these "bowls" belong to all VFD members? (as suggested in another thread).
What does this community think of that? Also, Snicket/Handler is simply a genius, horseradish was emphasized in book 2 with its smell surrounding the Lousy Lane drive. And if this apple core bowl thing is related to, that is just awesome. haha. But I don't know - is that too far fetched?
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Post by Hermes on Dec 15, 2012 18:41:19 GMT -5
I think it unlikely that the conclusion was planned that far back (given how much in the early books is hard to fit in with the later ones). With horseradish, Handler was probably reaching back to something that had originally been a throwaway detail, and making new use of it, rather than having planned it all along.
That said, I think bowls of fruit are important in some way. Have you read The Nameless Novel (promotional thingy for TPP)? There is a transcript of it in Dastardly Documents. It contains something that might well support your theory. (No time to be more explicit now - will explain in more detail later.)
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Post by zombiesinthesnow on Dec 15, 2012 18:56:51 GMT -5
I think it unlikely that the conclusion was planned that far back (given how much in the early books is hard to fit in with the later ones). With horseradish, Handler was probably reaching back to something that had originally been a throwaway detail, and making new use of it, rather than having planned it all along. That said, I think bowls of fruit are important in some way. Have you read The Nameless Novel (promotional thingy for TPP)? There is a transcript of it in Dastardly Documents. It contains something that might well support your theory. (No time to be more explicit now - will explain in more detail later.) Thank you for elaborating! I will definitely check out that transcript. And yeah, the assumption about how Handler organized things definitely makes more sense.
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Post by Hermes on Dec 18, 2012 15:15:34 GMT -5
OK: In TNN there are two passages which draw attention to places in the series which refer to bowls of fruit: the one you quoted, and also a passage in THH where there is a bowl of fruit in the antechamber of the Library of Records. In each case the passage is introduced with 'Note the bowl of fruit'.
TNN also includes an extract from Gustav Sebald's famous film Ants in the Fruit Salad, which also includes a reference to a bowl of fruit.
In TPP itself, chapter 9, Jerome says 'You can't just grab children as if they were pieces of fruit in a bowl'.
So it looks as if Handler is trying to call our attention to bowls of fruit. I think this is just a thematic thing, and we shouldn't take these various bowls actually to be connected within the story. But what he is doing here may be relevant to the sugar bowl. I think it supports the view that what it contains is the bitter apples, as suggested by the line in TheEnd 'Of course Beatrice is keeping some in a vess-'.
This would be a thematically satisfying answer to the question what the SB contains: unfortunately it doesn't fit everything Lemony says. If Beatrice put the fruit in the bowl while she was on the island, how can she have stolen it from Esme in company with Lemony, presumably much earlier, when they were still together? How can the sugar bowl be, or contain, evidence of Lemony's innocence, as a passage in TSS suggests (though it should be borne in mind the passage doesn't actually include the words 'sugar bowl', just 'tea set'; but it's natural to read it that way). If the SB is important because it contains a preservative against Medusoid Mycelium, how do we reconcile this with the fact that some people - including Esme, who is very keen on the bowl - think that the MM no longer exists? And so on. But there is evidence that there was a significant rethink of the plot between TGG and TPP, so I think this is still possible.
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Post by Dante on Dec 19, 2012 3:08:34 GMT -5
I'd be cautious about reading too much into The Nameless Novel's choice of clues. There aren't any objective statements either way, but I get the distinct impression from various sources that he didn't personally work on it. The creators knew TPP, obviously; they were an internal publicity team. But that doesn't mean they knew Handler's mind, and in any case the site was rife with red herrings.
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Post by Charlie on Dec 19, 2012 18:49:02 GMT -5
It is interesting though, that bowls of fruit crop up during the series like that. Perhaps there is some deeper meaning to all this
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