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Post by Seymour Glass on May 30, 2010 9:18:30 GMT -5
Hal is described as the oldest man the Baudelaires have ever met. H could be Hugo.
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snicket993
Reptile Researcher
"The world is quiet here"
Posts: 15
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Post by snicket993 on Nov 24, 2010 21:59:41 GMT -5
I don't think this family tree is the Snicket family tree,but a family tree of various V.F.D. members, who may or may not be related. I think the same thing.
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Post by Sora on Dec 11, 2010 2:03:16 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it's a hangman's noose, and I suppose it would be representative of Olaf's presence being associated with death and evil. You can produce a number of other readings, though - it could foreshadow Olaf's death, or even signify that his branch of the tree is a dead end which produces no more children. I think the last interpretation is highly contestable: we don't know if Esmé perished in the fire, and the ambiguity of Olaf and Esmé's relationship leaves the possibility of unreferenced Olaf offspring open. I would certainly enjoy a fan-fic where Olaf's children seek some sort of revenge/solace with Beatrice Snicket-Baudelaire or the older Baudelaire siblings themselves.
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Post by bryan on Dec 11, 2010 12:23:53 GMT -5
I don't think this family tree is the Snicket family tree,but a family tree of various V.F.D. members, who may or may not be related. I think the same thing. On the wikipedia page for Lemony Snicket's family, it shows a family tree. I don't know if it's derived from the tree in TUA, but it shows the relationship between alot of the characters on it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snicket_family
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Post by Dante on Dec 11, 2010 12:41:47 GMT -5
That family tree is basically exactly the same thing as the U.A. family tree, yes, but with some gaps filled in according to common observation. I don't really think it belongs there.
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Post by montgomerymontgomy on Feb 21, 2011 16:11:04 GMT -5
This is, of course, the "Snicket" Family tree. Here is a more easily readable copy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snicket_familyIt's in alphabetical order, which makes it easy to remember. So, "?" had A, B, and Charles Snicket. Charles Snicket married "?"#2, and so on. G, I, and H are Gregor, Isaac "Ike" Anwhistle, and H is either Hal, Hector, or Hugo. This is possible because it is noted that Josephine isn't really the Baudelaire Orphan's aunt, but second cousin's sister-in-law. If A. or B. Snicket gave birth to (or married someone who gave birth to) Beatrice Snicket, and she married Bertrand Baudelaire, then the orphan's second cousin would be G or H, and their sister in law is Josephine. This proves possible that the orphan's are part of this family. I believe this could actually be the V.F.D Tree, because, well, I think Hal is H, because he once said something in V.F.D code. Of course, some V'F.D members aren't here, because Frank or Ernest once said something in sebald code, "I cant tell if you are associates or enemies. Please respond". Frank can't be F, E not Jacob. Olaf can be O (he and Jacob are referred to as O and E in UA). he is the baudelaire's third cousin four times removed, or vice versa. If he is three times removed, he must be 3 generations above them (i.e where"?" is at the top), so either what Poe said about Olaf is a lie, the baudelaires and Josephine aren't related to Snicket's, or Olaf isn't. M is definitely not Montgomery me, I would know if Count Olaf is my brother, or if my aunt (D. Snicket, Josephine's mother-in-law) had only one eyebrow, and one ear. The Beatrice shown on this Tree is the one that the Orphans adopted and named Beatrice. On that subject, just so you guys know, "The Beatrice Letters" isn't about the one Lemony loved, it's about letters between the second Beatrice and Lemony, her uncle, while she's trying to find out where her adoptive parents are, the Orphans. Also, if the Baudelaires branch off of A. or B, doesn't that mean someone may have come off of the other? Maybe the Quagmires?
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Post by Dante on Feb 21, 2011 17:44:31 GMT -5
Hal used V.F.D. codes in TPP, but he had only been recruited into V.F.D. between THH and TPP; it seems that he wasn't a volunteer before then, in his younger days. We can leave open the shocking possibility that the H. Anwhistle sibling is someone we don't know about. And half of TBL is about the Beatrice Lemony loved; the letters written by Lemony are all to the original Beatrice.
You've traced the relationship between the Anwhistles and the Baudelaires accurately, but let me go into detail on the subject, as second cousins always confuse me: The following is stated in TWW: Josephine is the Baudelaire orphans' "second cousin's sister-in-law," which if you work it out means that Ike was their second cousin ("sister-in-law" means that she was married to the second cousin's brother, who would also have been a second cousin, and is therefore Ike). A second cousin is, I think, a great-uncle/aunt's grandchild? So the children's grandparents' siblings' grandchildren included Ike. So, if the Baudelaires are related to the Snicket family tree, it's through the siblings A., B., and C., assuming it represents a traditional family three.
It's been suggested, also, that the Quagmires are related to the Denouements, because it's said that triplets run in the latter's family.
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Post by montgomerymontgomy on Feb 21, 2011 20:09:31 GMT -5
Well, a second cousin is "Someone with whom one shares a great-grandparent (but not a grandparent or a parent)". if you Think B or A had Beatrice, and she gave birth to the siblings, then you can see that the Orphans and Josephine share "?" as a great-grandparent, but they don't have the same grandparents or parents.
I have noticed that throughout the books there are groups of three children, having their parents killed in fires. Baudelaires, the Quagmires (I'm sure you know) and, somewhere mentioned in various books (UA, TBL, ASOUE) is a snicket fire, which could have happened in the mansions/houses of A, B, and C; D, E, and F; G, H, and I; J, K, and L; or M, N, and O.
Or, there could have been a fire in each mansion, and only one mentioned.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 22, 2011 10:45:32 GMT -5
G, I, and H are Gregor, Isaac "Ike" Anwhistle, and H is either Hal, Hector, or Hugo. Humphrey! Humphrey, I say! That might make Beatrice rather uncomfortably closely related to Lemony for some people (first cousins once removed). Olaf and Ike could both be related to the Snickets through their mothers (as shown on the tree) and to the Baudelaires through their fathers. I have noticed that throughout the books there are groups of three children, having their parents killed in fires. Baudelaires, the Quagmires (I'm sure you know) Also Denouements. The Snicket File is first introduced as the file on the Snicket Fires, which I always took to mean fires that Lemony was accused of starting; but it might also mean fires in the houses of Snickets. But it does include the Baudelaire fire as well, so if that's so it must have been expanded to cover other, related fires. I don't remember a singular Snicket fire, but Lulu mentions that at one time Olaf hoped to get the Snicket fortune.
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Post by montgomerymontgomy on Feb 22, 2011 10:52:48 GMT -5
I don't remember a singular Snicket fire, but Lulu mentions that at one time Olaf hoped to get the Snicket fortune. I also realized that. First the Snickets, then the Baudelaires and Quagmires (who branched off of the snickets)?
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Post by survivorofthefire on Jun 30, 2011 11:19:57 GMT -5
The family tree might not be a Snicket family tree but rather an order for people to get the orphaned children of V.F.D. (as the children of VFD seem to lose parents in fires increasingly), and other legal matters involving family. So they are members of VFD who are "related" (but in sections according to branches they actually are related--GHI, JKL, etc.).
I do like the idea of H being Humphrey. Also it is possible that M and O are Miranda and Olivia, because she could have changed her name back but kept the "Mrs." as to keep Friday from asking questions. Or it is possible that M is Monty without O being Olaf (or vice versa, O being Olaf and M not being Monty).
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Post by colette on Jul 17, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
I guess M and N are those two sinister people. Also M can be Monday. H is Humphrey At least, this is the most pleasant theory for me. Are you sure that G is Gregor and not Gonzalo?
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Post by Dante on Jul 17, 2011 8:49:24 GMT -5
Gregor and Isaac Anwhistle are brothers, and would be connected on a family tree in exactly the way G and I are. It would be very strange for Gregor to be displaced by a non-character like Gonzalo.
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Post by colette on Jul 17, 2011 9:34:24 GMT -5
What about Humphrey? He is also not character, he was only mentioned once.
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Post by Dante on Jul 17, 2011 10:01:08 GMT -5
But we don't know of any H who is definitely related to Isaac and Gregor, so the field's wide open there.
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