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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Aug 2, 2014 19:56:16 GMT -5
I agree, Dante, that your suggested unfolding of events would be pretty great from a narrative view. It would also in a way parallel ASoUE's twist in the series at the end of TVV, after which the Baudelaires are also on the run from the law, and at which point the series starts to become really interesting instead of merely very enjoyable.
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rheichou
Reptile Researcher
How does one keep a secret?
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Post by rheichou on Aug 9, 2014 0:55:24 GMT -5
In terms of having parallelisms between the L's and the Baudelaires lives, do you think that there'd be an account where they would eventually meet?
I doesn't seem highly unlikely for them to meet in my opinion, because L is already tracing them and writing their footsteps.
Also, i think that Hangfire might have some relations to Count Olaf. Not in family relations, but in regards that they might be working together against the V.F.D. Could this be possible?
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Post by Dante on Aug 9, 2014 3:04:52 GMT -5
By all accounts Olaf must be about Lemony's age at the time of ATWQ, so the chances of him having anything to do with Hangfire seem pretty slim. You could argue for it, sure, but it'd be more of a fanfiction thing, an idea just for yourself rather than canon. Certainly there's a temptation to connect them, as the villains of Snicket's two series, but there's not really any foundation on which to do so - at least not yet - unless you make up a lot of stuff. Hangfire has very little to do with V.F.D. as far as we know, and Olaf has nothing at all to do with Stain'd-by-the-Sea. That might change in the future - Hangfire could be an ex-volunteer, Olaf could turn up in Stain'd - but as of right now the circumstances aren't there.
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rheichou
Reptile Researcher
How does one keep a secret?
Posts: 37
Likes: 1
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Post by rheichou on Aug 9, 2014 20:04:30 GMT -5
By all accounts Olaf must be about Lemony's age at the time of ATWQ, so the chances of him having anything to do with Hangfire seem pretty slim. You could argue for it, sure, but it'd be more of a fanfiction thing, an idea just for yourself rather than canon. Certainly there's a temptation to connect them, as the villains of Snicket's two series, but there's not really any foundation on which to do so - at least not yet - unless you make up a lot of stuff. Hangfire has very little to do with V.F.D. as far as we know, and Olaf has nothing at all to do with Stain'd-by-the-Sea. That might change in the future - Hangfire could be an ex-volunteer, Olaf could turn up in Stain'd - but as of right now the circumstances aren't there. Thank you, Dante! I'm very torn between wanting Count Olaf to be mentioned at least once in the ATWQ series and not wanting him present at all. I do think though that Hangfire knows of V.F.D., even if it's only a little. He disguised as someone else, which is why he didn't call the police first. Surely Hangfire had had to know of what V.F.D.(not everything, he only knew the tip of the iceberg...?) did before he called them.
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Post by Dante on Aug 10, 2014 3:12:59 GMT -5
I agree that Hangfire must have known of V.F.D. in order to call in a volunteer to serve as a dupe in his scheme in ?1, but nobody seems especially surprised by the idea that this is possible, so it's clear that V.F.D. isn't entirely underground or completely secret. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be an ex-volunteer - he's a master of the three phases of the V.F.D. disguise kit, for one thing - but that idea and anything drawn from it is complete speculation at this stage.
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Post by rchllsnckt on Aug 16, 2014 20:05:21 GMT -5
I have two things to add. I'm new here, so sorry if this has already been discussed.
First, does anyone get the feeling young Lemony Snicket has feelings for Ellington Feint? And if this is true, is it possible Ellington Feint isn't her true name and instead is an alias for someone for whom each book of ASOUE is dedicated?
Second, I'm rereading ASOUE while waiting for ?3 to come out. I just finished the Grim Grotto, Book the Eleventh, and noticed something curious. Does anyone else here remember the third symbol on the sonar screen of the Queequeg that even Count Olaf seemed to fear? According to the book, it was shaped like a snake with a circle below it, like a question mark (Snicket explicitly describes it as resembling a question mark). At the end of the book, the three Baudelaires gasp when they see its shadow, and Snicket says he will not say what it was because it was so terrible, not even whether it was a sea monster or a machine. It's strange to me that he would have forgotten this monster, and created an entirely new monster, the Bombinating Beast, to appear shaped like a question mark as well. What do you guys think?
With all due respect,
R. S.
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Post by Dante on Aug 17, 2014 4:00:55 GMT -5
Hello there, rchllsnckt, First, does anyone get the feeling young Lemony Snicket has feelings for Ellington Feint? And if this is true, is it possible Ellington Feint isn't her true name and instead is an alias for someone for whom each book of ASOUE is dedicated? I think Lemony is definitely fascinated by Ellington Feint, yes, and it's not just my opinion; Moxie Mallahan seems to be a little sore on the subject. I think that in some ways it would make a good story if Ellington were to end up being somebody we better know as Beatrice, partly as Ellington's journey is very similar to that of the Baudelaires... but. There are timing issues with The Beatrice Letters which, alas, make this practically impossible. I suppose you also have to ask why she would change her name (either to or from Ellington). The parallel has been noted, yes. My feeling, at least, is that the Bombinating Beast is the Great Unknown, but the Great Unknown isn't the Bombinating Beast - in other words, that the Bombinating Beast is one myth told about the Great Unknown, one way of putting it into terms which people can understand, but I don't think the myth is true...
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Post by rchllsnckt on Aug 17, 2014 23:33:43 GMT -5
Interesting...
Also, reading the Penultimate Peril today, Kit Snicket mentioned she was four years old when the schism happened, and so doesn't really remember it. It then follows that the schism took place before the events of ATWQ. Any thoughts on whether her mission to the museum has something to do with the schism or its effects?
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Post by Dante on Aug 18, 2014 5:55:20 GMT -5
I do think the mission to the museum, and the quest for the mysterious item stored there, must have implications for the schism, as in ATWQ we see a clear division between the more active and interventionist priorities of the younger characters and what appears to be a more passive attitude among older characters. The closing chapters of ?2 are particularly revealing in this respect, when we hear of the young Snicket giving a speech to his confederates about how they had to find new ways of saving the world, and meanwhile we see the older and adult members of V.F.D. conspiring to keep the Snicket siblings apart and out of trouble. TPP helpfully raises the inviting prospect of something like multiple schisms, in Dewey (I've previously mistakenly attributed this quote to Kit, I think) stating that "With each generation, the schism gets worse" (page 181); so perhaps one initial rupture was what sent V.F.D. semi-underground, and another is at risk by the Snickets' actions...
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Sept 20, 2014 12:41:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure whether it's implied that Moxie's mother is dead, and that she is coping with it by lying about it. Her father's depression certainly seems realistic for someone whose wife has died, whereas someone who'd merely been left behind would probably just be mad or sad. Alternatively, could she have symbolically died - I mean, could she have done exactly what Moxie says, but in order (from a narrative point of view) to let Handler portray the Mallahans as grieving without having to kill a character before the story has begun? The most likely thing is that I'm reading too much into it, though. Has anyone else had the same gloomy thought?
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Post by Agathological on Sept 20, 2014 15:33:59 GMT -5
Something interesting I just found out. Listening to the audiobook of the Miserable Mill, Snicket mentions a sculpturor called Tatiana who created the twisted, cracked and hopelessly broken sculpture. It appears Tatiana from Midnight Demon stayed in contact and remained friends with Snicket into his adulthood.
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Post by Teleram on Sept 20, 2014 16:02:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure whether it's implied that Moxie's mother is dead, and that she is coping with it by lying about it. Her father's depression certainly seems realistic for someone whose wife has died, whereas someone who'd merely been left behind would probably just be mad or sad. Alternatively, could she have symbolically died - I mean, could she have done exactly what Moxie says, but in order (from a narrative point of view) to let Handler portray the Mallahans as grieving without having to kill a character before the story has begun? The most likely thing is that I'm reading too much into it, though. Has anyone else had the same gloomy thought? I have never thought of it like that before, but I have always suspected there was something up with Moxie's mother.
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Post by Dante on Sept 20, 2014 16:07:03 GMT -5
For the curious, Tatiana in TMM is page 100, the second time Klaus's glasses get broken. ...I'm inclined to think this one's a coincidence, considering that Tatiana as we know her has nothing to do with sculpting, because that's so obscure a reference that I'm not entirely sure why Handler would make it, considering that he actually removed another reference pre-publication (Marguerite Gracq was originally called Colette).
Regarding the theory about Moxie's mother, the story about her leaving for the city strikes me as too plausible to be a lie, and too detailed, too. Mr. Mallahan's depression struck me as being related to the break-up of his marriage as much as the loss of his family business.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Sept 21, 2014 9:49:45 GMT -5
For the curious, Tatiana in TMM is page 100, the second time Klaus's glasses get broken. ...I'm inclined to think this one's a coincidence, considering that Tatiana as we know her has nothing to do with sculpting, because that's so obscure a reference that I'm not entirely sure why Handler would make it, considering that he actually removed another reference pre-publication (Marguerite Gracq was originally called Colette). But isn't that just confirmation that DH generally tries to avoid coincidences that could be mistaken for connections? Except of course when it's on purpose, like it is all over Adverbs. I've lent out my copy of TMM, so I can't check the passages in question for myself to decide whether I think it's intentional, but I don't wanna rule out the possibility that the Tatiana thing was done on purpose. After all, Colette is a much more important character than a sculptor who's only mentioned in passing, so this reference is of much less consequence to the ASOUEniverse/Snicketverse/Averse than the Colette Gracq one would've been. It's the kind of thing that an author, particularly one like Snicket, might do for fun.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Sept 21, 2014 11:35:59 GMT -5
For the curious, Tatiana in TMM is page 100, the second time Klaus's glasses get broken. ...I'm inclined to think this one's a coincidence, considering that Tatiana as we know her has nothing to do with sculpting, because that's so obscure a reference that I'm not entirely sure why Handler would make it, considering that he actually removed another reference pre-publication (Marguerite Gracq was originally called Colette). But isn't that just confirmation that DH generally tries to avoid coincidences that could be mistaken for connections? Except of course when it's on purpose, like it is all over Adverbs. I've lent out my copy of TMM, so I can't check the passages in question for myself to decide whether I think it's intentional, but I don't wanna rule out the possibility that the Tatiana thing was done on purpose. After all, Colette is a much more important character than a sculptor who's only mentioned in passing, so this reference is of much less consequence to the ASOUEniverse/Snicketverse/Averse than the Colette Gracq one would've been. It's the kind of thing that an author, particularly one like Snicket, might do for fun. I'm sorry for being such a n0ob, but what is Midnight Demon and who is Marguerite Gracq? EDIT: What lah, censors...
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