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Post by Dante on Feb 10, 2015 3:34:45 GMT -5
I actually think, on the subject of murder culprits, that Lemony may find himself conflicted over having to suspect Ellington of the crime. Mainly I think this because otherwise (and this is a flaw that's come up in my own fanfiction), the solution "Hangfire is the culprit" seems pretty obvious and not a twist. I kind of hope this means there might be an impossible crime element to the murder, too, to add the question of "how?" rather than just "who?" That goes double if Ellington witnesses something seemingly impossible, actually, because it's not necessarily impossible if you don't trust her to be telling the truth... But this is my favouritism for this kind of fiction showing, really.
As for if the train eventually takes our characters to the city, for Lemony and Kit's stories to cross over... I think this train business sounds like it's largely going to be near the start of the story - for instance, I'd be very surprised if Snicket weren't also to visit the Clusterous Forest at last - but since he must be leaving the town by the end, meeting Kit as the punchline to the various ASoUE guest character visits across the series would make a lot of sense.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Feb 10, 2015 11:26:10 GMT -5
I definitely agree about Ellington. And, to be honest, it would be in keeping with the previous three books; in each book, Ellington has made out like she's just doing what she has to, she's not a bad person, she's been forced into bad situations, etc, etc. And while this isn't necessarily untrue, her morality is dubious at best, and Lemony constantly questions which side she's really on. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ellington were a murder suspect, or even if she was, at least in some part, actually responsible. Considering Snicket's general style, an impossible element doesn't seem too far of a stretch. And while in general, he has answered more questions in ATWQ than he did in ASOUE, there is always that overarching sense of mystery, so I'm pretty sure a 'how?' and maybe a 'what?' will get in there, particularly considering the scene in SYBIS? with Ellington and the supposed, but never confirmed, Bombinating Beast. A venture into the Clusterous Forest seems inevitable -- unless it is doomed to remain forever a distant, threatening presence which we never enter. As Lemony has already had involvement in Kit's storyline, however minor, I vaguely think that there will be some sort of conclusion which might bring them both together at last, but it's all guesswork for now, of course.
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tfrisch
Reptile Researcher
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Post by tfrisch on Feb 17, 2015 0:05:16 GMT -5
Since WITNDFAON breaks the pattern of the decreasing word count in the title, doesn't that lead anyone to believe that the last book may not follow the color pattern either and the last book may in fact not be green?
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Post by bandit on Feb 17, 2015 0:09:31 GMT -5
To be fair, the decreasing word count could have been nothing but a coincidence. I wouldn't compare it to a strikingly deliberate design decision.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Feb 17, 2015 4:25:05 GMT -5
Perhaps Hangfire needs to use the trains for something so he starts making them run daily again - it wasn't wrong for Moxie to say they ran monthly at the time, but in the several months Snicket was in Stain'd, that's changed. I thought of this, too, but all of Hangfire's schemes so far have worked towards the desolation of Stain'd. It would seem suspicious, I think, if in the middle of this devline, suddenly trains starting running on a daily basis again, and it would be thematically out of place. Well, that could be suspicious enough a hook to get lemonys interest in the train started, which would then lead into the murder? To be fair, the decreasing word count could have been nothing but a coincidence. It'll be interesitng to see if the number of pictures on front/back cover decreases or if that also turns out to be coincidence
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Post by gliquey on Feb 17, 2015 7:12:43 GMT -5
To be fair, the decreasing word count could have been nothing but a coincidence. I wouldn't compare it to a strikingly deliberate design decision. It could well have been a coincidence - fans notice patterns all over the place, even when none exist - but I think in this case it's perhaps more likely that it was intentional. Sure, the questions have to be full sentences, which means they're probably going to be a bit longer than most book's titles, but I think the fact that the first title was seven words long makes it more likely that Handler was doing it on purpose. He also replied to someone's question about title lengths (it was roughly "How many words will ?4's title have?"), so he has to be aware that we're interested in the number of words - although it could be that he knows we have noticed a pattern, but did not originally put it there on purpose. In any case, I think the colour of the book will probably still be green; I don't think it would be worth it to break such a subtle pattern, and green would make sense to match Ellington's eye colour. I suppose red would work (and just black/white has been suggested) but other than that, there aren't that many colours that would suit the series (imagine a bright yellow cover or hot pink illustrations... not very gothic noir at all).
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Feb 17, 2015 9:11:03 GMT -5
although it could be that he konws we have noticed a pattern, but did not originally put it there on purpose. I think this is likely the case, since Handler has mentioned that he's always wanted to use the title 'WCTBATH' regardless of what book it's for. And good observation that the last book's green colour would match Ellington's eyes, maybe that's why Snicket always mentions them (maybe there will be a whole poetic passage on the colour green somewhere).
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Feb 18, 2015 5:12:08 GMT -5
also green connects to VFD
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tfrisch
Reptile Researcher
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Post by tfrisch on Feb 18, 2015 18:53:42 GMT -5
Misterm, it does? How so?
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emf3rd
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Post by emf3rd on Feb 18, 2015 22:25:55 GMT -5
Misterm, it does? How so? Well, just off the top of my head, the Verdant Flammable Devices that appeared to be 'in' cigarettes/cigars from TSS, but instead gave off a green smoke as a means to signal other members of the organization, before the schism. There could be other references as well, but that's just the first that comes to mind.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 19, 2015 0:45:25 GMT -5
Also of note is the emerald lumber produced by Lucky Smells used to build VFD mansions.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Feb 19, 2015 2:09:43 GMT -5
i was thinking more of what charlie said, actually.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 19, 2015 3:29:01 GMT -5
Great minds and all that jazz
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Post by Dante on Feb 23, 2015 6:52:25 GMT -5
I think there's another good reason to expect ?4 to be green (with purple boxes), actually, and it's because the colour scheme pattern is probably one of alternating pairs. That is, ?3's colour scheme is ?1's flipped around; the expectation therefore is that ?4's colour scheme will be ?2's flipped around. If ?4 does not use that colour scheme, then ?4 is not the odd one out; rather, ?3 would be the odd one out as the only book to recycle a previous colour scheme. That would undermine the purpose of breaking the pattern.
Besides, green will be good for ?4 for a lot of reasons - there's Ellington's eyes, as noted (and I wonder if Hangfire's are the same), but it's also likely that we'll be visiting the Clusterous Forest, likely a very green place. Methods of murder might also be associated with the colour green - Handler has had a lot of people murdered in his books but tends to shy away from blood or not dwell on it, so I don't know if I expect the ?4 murder to be a bloody one; I have been anticipating that the ?4 murder might therefore be a bloodless or not obviously violent one, which therefore points to a murder weapon which one might well expect to be green in colour: Poison. It's worth noting that Handler has executed his characters by poison before - well, by venom: Uncle Monty in TRR.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Feb 23, 2015 10:01:25 GMT -5
I can imagine the murder might indeed be a bloodless one -- the Officers Mitchum will undoubtedly make a mess of things, assuming the are present, and if they don't simply accuse the wrong person, they might very well put about the theory that there hasn't been a murder at all, just an accident, which would be easier to believe if it's not a particularly violent murder.
I think a green book would match what we know or suspect of the plot very well, and would definitely tie in well with V.F.D., Ellington's eyes, etc.
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