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Post by Libitina on Jan 6, 2005 21:09:06 GMT -5
Based on the Baudelaires, behavior, and values in ASOUE, one can surmise that Daniel Handler has a certain set of morals. On that, I commend him. I recall seeing in an interview that Mr. Handler said that the Baudelaires seemed to adhere to a Jewish moralic mindset, as they always do what is right, despite their prediciment or sourroundings, however gloomy or not. However, Mr. Handler seems to have put his politics before his writing and his morals. The usage of Sunny's term "Busheney," as previously discussed, and the Cathedral of the "Alleged" Virgin, among other vehicles, are clear snubs and emotional attacks towards conservative ideaologies and the Catholic faith. While Mr. Handler does have all the literary freedom in the world, and the right to write (no pun intended) whatever he pleases, he does not have the right to brainwash little children who occupy the majority of the reader of ASOUE. Please respond with thoughts, criticism, and explanations. Thank you.
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Jan 6, 2005 21:25:00 GMT -5
Ok, you might be offended, but I think of them as clever little treats. The 5-year old won't be able to notice the political snubs, but they're fun for the older readers.
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Antenora
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Post by Antenora on Jan 7, 2005 9:17:12 GMT -5
Maybe I'm biased because I agree with Handler's (political) views, but I found "Busheney" quite funny. It's my favorite Sunnyspeak word. As J said, few young people would even catch these things, so you can't really call it brainwashing.
As for the Cathedral of the Alleged Virgin, I've never really thought of that as an anti-Catholic satire, just as an example of the general sense of uncertainty and falseness that permeates Mr. Snicket's fantasy universe. It can be taken either way.
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Post by Dante on Jan 7, 2005 11:37:18 GMT -5
At least one Bush supporter who posts on this board thought that "Busheney!" was funny.
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Jan 7, 2005 19:23:49 GMT -5
I'm missing the Church satire. Who? What? Where? When? Why?
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Antenora
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Post by Antenora on Jan 7, 2005 19:49:11 GMT -5
The "Cathedral of the Alleged Virgin" can be taken as a satire on Catholicism, but I don't know what the other "vehicles" that Orangey mentioned are. If there are other examples of religious satire, they must be fairly subtle because I can't think of them. At least one Bush supporter who posts on this board thought that "Busheney!" was funny. I remember a couple of people saying so in the "Busheney" thread. However, I wonder if Snicket lost any fans after TSS because of "Busheney".
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Jan 7, 2005 22:25:17 GMT -5
The "Cathedral of the Alleged Virgin" can be taken as a satire on Catholicism, yeah, but which book is at in?
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Post by Dante on Jan 8, 2005 3:56:56 GMT -5
yeah, but which book is at in? The Unauthorised Autobiography.
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Post by The Wicker Man on Jan 8, 2005 5:27:18 GMT -5
While Mr. Handler does have all the literary freedom in the world, and the right to write (no pun intended) whatever he pleases, he does not have the right to brainwash little children who occupy the majority of the reader of ASOUE. Please respond with thoughts, criticism, and explanations. Thank you. You touched a nerve here. Personally, I find your reactionary stance and the thought of a child-proof world far more offensive than Handler's in-jokes. To take Handler to task for inserting a mundane political jab into his narrative seems such an overreaction, especially since most readers won't even catch it. Those who do will either get a chuckle, or mutter a disappointed groan, depending on their own views. Regarding the "Alleged Virgin," again I have to say that you're overreacting. It is not an anti-Christian statement, but I will not deny that it pokes fun at something that many people (including yourself it seems) have zero sense of humor about. Poor taste? Perhaps. However, to call that brainwashing is the kind of hypersensitive watchdogging I've come to loathe in contemporary American culture. Just because you may disagree with a brief surfacing of his political views doesn't make it inappropriate children's literature, and I would make every attempt to arm a child of mine with the critical thinking skills nessessary to make up his or her own mind. I think you need to take a good, long look at other children's literature before condemning Handler. Off the top of my head, I can think of three other authors whose political and moral views are far more central to their work: Dr. Seuss, C.S. Lewis, and Philip Pullman. The latter's more secular, anti-religious bureacracy themes have drawn quite a bit of criticism, but I don't find his work any more offensive that that of C.S. Lewis, which is to say not at all. You're right, Handler has the right to write anything he chooses, and hopefully you as a parent would take an interest in what your child is reading and discuss issues like this, rather call for the sanitation of the written word.
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Post by Libitina on Jan 8, 2005 11:23:18 GMT -5
We're only kids who have convictions. (Our age is wrong in our profile). Lighten up! We are twenty years away from having kids, but when we do we'll be sure to "watchdog" everything they read. We weren't condemning Handler, just pointing out an element of his literary style. Because the arts in America is so full of the Left's idealogy, we have come to accept the politics of authors like the ones you mentioned as correct. Whether you agree or not, its not right.
No hard feelings, just chill out!
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Post by Brian on Jan 8, 2005 13:36:50 GMT -5
You know, it's kind of like Shakespeare would put little sexual puns in his plays that could go right over your head and still make senes, or a person with a dirtier mind could have a good laugh.
No, seriously - read the very first conversation after the prolougue in Romeo and Juliet. The Capulet's soliders are talking about cutting off the heads of the Montague's maidens, or their maiden-heads...in other words, killing their virginity and raping them. And Shakespeare uses the word "thrust" right before then...ugh. Anyway, it would still make sense even if you weren't perverted enough to catch that. And yes, Shakespeare did that intentionally.
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Antenora
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Post by Antenora on Jan 8, 2005 13:56:39 GMT -5
I remember the dirty puns in Romeo and Juliet. They are quite funny. We're only kids who have convictions. (Our age is wrong in our profile). Lighten up! We are twenty years away from having kids, but when we do we'll be sure to "watchdog" everything they read. We weren't condemning Handler, just pointing out an element of his literary style. Because the arts in America is so full of the Left's idealogy, we have come to accept the politics of authors like the ones you mentioned as correct. Whether you agree or not, its not right. No hard feelings, just chill out! Why are you using "we"? How many of you are there? You're confusing me. Also, I'd like to know what other examples of anti-Catholic satire there are besides the cathedral, because you implied that there are many examples throughout the series("among other vehicles"). I asked earlier, and you didn't say. And while we're on the subject of political children's lit...what do you think of this book? I agree with everything Wicker Man said; you came across as very reactionary--paranoid, even.
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Jan 8, 2005 14:42:13 GMT -5
I remember the dirty puns in Romeo and Juliet. They are quite funny. Why are you using "we"? How many of you are there? You're confusing me. Also, I'd like to know what other examples of anti-Catholic satire there are besides the cathedral, because you implied that there are many examples throughout the series("among other vehicles"). I asked earlier, and you didn't say. And while we're on the subject of political children's lit...what do you think of this book? I agree with everything Wicker Man said; you came across as very reactionary--paranoid, even. I wasconfused about the 'we, too, and I also wanted to bring up the Liberals Under My Bed ook but was too lazy to.
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Post by QuagmireFan on Jan 8, 2005 15:29:36 GMT -5
We're only kids who have convictions. (Our age is wrong in our profile). Lighten up! We are twenty years away from having kids, but when we do we'll be sure to "watchdog" everything they read. We weren't condemning Handler, just pointing out an element of his literary style. Because the arts in America is so full of the Left's idealogy, we have come to accept the politics of authors like the ones you mentioned as correct. Whether you agree or not, its not right. No hard feelings, just chill out! You make a good point. Dan should write books,not force his political/religious veiws on children.
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Luigi
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Post by Luigi on Jan 8, 2005 15:32:03 GMT -5
You make a good point. Dan should write books,not force his political/religious veiws on children. ut he ISN'T forcing his views on children, for godssake! It's just harmless littlejokes that the children won'te ven NOITCE.
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