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Post by redwine with valium on Feb 4, 2005 16:58:43 GMT -5
I can't believe such a few words has generated such a long and heated debate. My view? It's a STORY. He put in a few political refereances, which I didn't even catch. I'm 15 and very well read, and I just didn't catch them. They don't bother me. Handler has every right to write whatever he wants, and if you don't like it nobody's forcing you to read it. I think the majority of things, like mentioning multiple Gods and the "alleged" virgin bit are just reinfocing the cynicism and uniqueness of the world he's created. It makes for an interesting, multilayered piece that is more entertaining to read than if it was more two-dimensional. Lighten up!
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Feb 4, 2005 18:41:51 GMT -5
I agree with all of that; the "alleged virgin" thing is just an example of Handler's general cynicism(which I mentioned earlier but didn't articulate so well). I too was not amused by the "Busheney" reference. It's political name-calling of the worst sort. It's also anachronistic and it hurts the suspension of disbelief in the work, if this was all supposed to take place long ago, . It's certainly not of the worst sort--Handler could have been far more unsubtle. I agree, however, that it's anachronistic and somewhat out of place(but the series is full of anachronisms anyway). Basically, I agree with everything Wicker Man said. Handler's Jewish, but he's never specified what religion the Baudelaires are, and it's illogical to assume that they share their author's religion. I've always assumed that they followed no particular religion.
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Post by RockSunner on Feb 6, 2005 17:37:15 GMT -5
It pretends to be a political statement, but it's just an insult about motives. Suppose someone said to you, "You are a completely evil person who doesn't care about others." You might answer, "No, I am a good person and I care about others." They might say, "That's just what I would expect an evil person to say!"
The statement is about motives rather than facts, it's a claim to be able to read minds, and it has no specifics to debate. That's why I say it is of the "worst sort."
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Post by Dante on Feb 7, 2005 13:12:07 GMT -5
Isn't that what every political statement is?
It's not like political debates are ever really more than childish name-calling under a veil of respectability.
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Post by RockSunner on Feb 7, 2005 23:05:28 GMT -5
Isn't that what every political statement is? It's not like political debates are ever really more than childish name-calling under a veil of respectability. And that's sad, because they should be much more than that. Real political debate should be about issues -- saying why one disagrees with a policy, and giving reasons for changing it.
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Post by Dante on Feb 8, 2005 11:34:40 GMT -5
And that's sad, because they should be much more than that. Real political debate should be about issues -- saying why one disagrees with a policy, and giving reasons for changing it. I agree completely. It's just a shame that things will never change. I also dislike many aspects of the party system, but that's somewhat off-topic.
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Post by john49 on Feb 8, 2005 18:05:33 GMT -5
Oy, god, are people really this upset about that silly little remark? Just because Mr. Handler put one or two little references in a curently 12-book span doesn't mean it's a piece of biased liberal propaganda used to corrupt children. Sheesh, get a life.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Feb 8, 2005 19:49:03 GMT -5
I think some people go out and actively seek things to be offended by. And that's sad, because they should be much more than that. Real political debate should be about issues -- saying why one disagrees with a policy, and giving reasons for changing it. Indeed, it's sad but true that political debate often degenerates into name-calling, if it was anything more to begin with.
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Post by john49 on Feb 8, 2005 19:51:36 GMT -5
Oh, yes, and right-wingers are bastions of not seeking to childish, stupid name calling. Flip-flopper! flip-flopper!
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Nora
Reptile Researcher
Go Kev
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Post by Nora on Mar 12, 2005 12:50:25 GMT -5
I love it when he slips in the little adult parts, it just reminds me of how much a clever writer he is, and that's the whole reason I began to read the books in the first place. His writing caught my eye and has kept for a long while and I doubt he will ever give it back. You can kind of compare it to how cartoonists place discreet adult jokes in the new children movies, like Finding Nemo and such.
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doom
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by doom on Mar 17, 2005 15:47:21 GMT -5
I'm not particularly Liberal, (or Conservative, for that manner) but I found "Busheney" quite funny. I'm able to not be influenced by the books, as I'm sure most readers are.
Handler put those jokes in, fully aware that some kids might not get them, but he's not about to take them out because some might not. They're just there, for anyone-adults or kids- who might get them, and maybe chuckle to themselves.
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Post by TopHat on Mar 17, 2005 22:49:39 GMT -5
Hey what book is Busheney in? Just a wondering question and is it really some big deal oh no the Cathedral of the Alleged Virgin is some big political corruption scam and if it is then it failed miserably because basicly during the whole book if you keep a commonplace book or search for all the details you are distracted with your search and if oyu find it you say haha or oyu say thats very Rude! and you go on looking for more clues. Corruption ASOUE is not.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Mar 18, 2005 7:49:11 GMT -5
Busheney is in TSS, and I'm pretty sure it's in Chapter 6.
Anyway, I agree. One or two minor political jokes doesn't mean that Handler's out to corrupt children. The point of his series is not to offend people, and the little jokes don't mean that the whole series is propaganda. In fact, a bookstore clerk once said that she liked the books because they promoted good moral values. (Probably, something to do with the way the Baudelaires try to do the right thing in the face of adversity.)
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