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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 14:44:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, evolution is one of the stupidest theories out there...
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter 
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Apr 11, 2004 14:52:04 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it. Can you provide support for your arguments? Perhaps one of us should start an "evolution" thread.
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Post by Celinra on Apr 11, 2004 14:54:33 GMT -5
Quite an interesting discussion this has become.
J said: See, it's beliefs like your's that turned me to Agnocism. I can NOT and will NOT believe it a favorite-playing God. I believe God judges--if there is a God--by the righteousness of a person and not by the religion one believes. What kind of judge is that? "All Christains--just, raping, murdering, baby-eating, (because, guess what, Christains DO rape people, kill and eat babies just like all the godless unsaved heathens) whatever, just Christains go to Heaven and everyone else, go to hell."
I don't think He plays favorites... God is just (people today seem to get so wrapped up in the fact that God is love that they forget that), and perfect. So, if He were to judge people by His standards, no one would measure up, because no one is perfect. So, He sent Jesus to die in the place of all those who are guilty (namely, everyone), so that they can go to Heaven. It's not a matter of a certain label, it's a matter of accepting this gift He gave. If you don't want to accept it, it's your choice.
As for the actions you describe, it's a matter of whether they ask forgiveness (i.e. accept Jesus' death in their place) or not. Basically, Christians believe they're not perfect, and can't live up to God's standards, and so accept Jesus' sacrifice for them... and this doesn't mean all their sins are automatically forgiven, so they can go sin as much as they want. They should still strive to live as best they can, but, as I said, no one is perfect. They still need to reconcile with God whenever they sin.
*hopes that section made some sense*
As for why I believe science proves God:
a) Where did life originate to begin with? Even if evolution is true, life had to be created at some point. Life can't suddenly rise up from nothing, even in the simplest form. Darwin actually renounced his own theories of evolution because of this fact. One must remember that when he first created these theories, it was a time when people believed life could spring up from nothing, i.e. when maggots suddenly appeared on something dead, they thought the living thing came from the dead/non-living thing, because they had no way of knowing that the maggots actually came from microscopic eggs that had been laid on the dead body.
b) How did all this happen? Seriously, what are the odds that, simply by random chance, our planet is the way it is? Some say, "Well, of all the planets out there, there's odds that at least one of them would have turned out like ours." That's almost the same as saying in poker, "Well, of all poker players, there's odds at least one of them will always always always always always draw good cards, why shouldn't it be me?"
As for Hell, I don't think it's a torture chamber, nor do I think it's actually fire. In the Bible, fire is used mostly as a symbol of judgement. I do believe Hell is punishment (likewise, jail is not torture, but is punishment). Mainly, though, it's most likely just separation from God. Anyways, think about it: if you went through life rejecting someone, would you really want to spend eternity with them? To those people, Heaven would probably be more like torture than Hell.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
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Post by Antenora on Apr 11, 2004 15:02:18 GMT -5
You're right about Hell and Heaven. If you never believed in or cared about God, why would you be punished by eternal separation from Him? I'm referring to the specific God mentioned in the Pledge.
In my opinion, God is not a being but a force of creation. Simply put, God is whatever caused the universe to be created in the Big Bang.
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 16:52:12 GMT -5
Yes, how could it all have been created... Before God made it all, there was nothing...
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Post by Madamluna on Apr 11, 2004 17:17:03 GMT -5
Wait, then who created God?
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Apr 11, 2004 18:37:32 GMT -5
Celina, thank you for a intelligence coming from a believer's side. You cleared up a lot of things for me in that one post, unlike most people who just say "Shut up, believe or go to hell."
I still believe the concept of God is quite a crock--at least, the common human's concept of God.
Luna, that question is Quetioning 101, and the only answer I've heard from the religious side is "Er...God's er...magical. Yeah". Unless Celina could come up with a more intelligent response, which I'm almost certain she can...
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Apr 11, 2004 19:08:45 GMT -5
God is not a being, I think. In the beginning there was nothing, and then the creator appeared, due to chance alone. Things like that happened in the beginning a lot. The creator, really more like a force than a person, created the universe: Stars, planets, computers, etc. I should be writing this down for my further reference in science-fiction writing. I may be writing vaguely here, but I think I'm getting something across.
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 20:50:28 GMT -5
God always was... There was never a beginning with God... He ALWAYS was...
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Apr 11, 2004 20:52:48 GMT -5
But every day, new science is being discovered that covers the flaws in today's science. That's what science is, after all
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 20:58:36 GMT -5
Yeah, true... I dunno... Did your believes on God change at all, J? Are you a Deismist yet?
I came up with an idea for you to do, J, only if you're interested... Go into a local church of yours... And ask the pastor/priest to tell you how he knows God is real... I trust that God will give him the right words to help convince you...
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Apr 11, 2004 21:02:55 GMT -5
Go into a local church? While I'm a Hebrew school student and I'm studying to be Bat Mitzvahed? Hah, never.
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 21:05:45 GMT -5
I thought you were athiest?
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Luigi
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by Luigi on Apr 11, 2004 21:08:14 GMT -5
Belief-wise, yes, but not culturally. And not in front of my parents, of course.
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Post by JeromeSqualor on Apr 11, 2004 21:26:18 GMT -5
Why not in front of your parents?
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