Why I was dissapointed with the fourth book.

[afireinside]

I was absolutley gobsmacked when I read the fourth book. I was completley astounded by the amount of flaws. I know that the books are meant for entertainment only but the very idea tht a baby armed with four sharp teeth could have a sword fight is ridiculous. And when Klaus was hypnotised and was pushing the log toward the razor with charles strapped to it, did no one really have the intelligence to push the log themselves? Why did Klaus have to do it? And stop me if I'm wrong but I thought Children were not allowed to work?

So so many flaws.

[falsespring]

I'll agree with you in that Sunny participating in a swordfight with her teeth is quite rediculous, to be honest. Why it was included in the story at all is beyond me; wouldn't it have been better to have Orwell threaten Sunny with the sword, then have Sunny simply dodge and avoid her attacks, biting her at an appropriate moment? The Bauds were forced to work in the mill because Sir was a very cruel and treacherous person, the sort to not use coasters. All he cared about was profits.

[Dante]

Funnily enough, I don't have any objections to the plot of TMM. I don't see Sunny swordfighting with her teeth as particularly more ridiculous than some of what happened in previous or later books - TMM was relatively silly, so I just went with it. My complaint with TMM is more that it was somehow tedious in a manner which I've never been quite able to identify. It has some great ideas and great moments, but I just wouldn't want to reread it. I can see why it would be unpopular for being the most straightforwardly over-the-top, though - coming after the first three books, much of TMM would be a little jarring as it utterly fails to take itself seriously.

Edit: In fact, let me address your concerns directly:

Baby participating in a swordfight with her teeth: Silly, yes. But an unconscionable break with everything that had come before in the series, or particularly anything that would come after? I don't see it. In TWW she helps sail a boat, and within TMM itself she has to participate in the dreadful log-processing work. I don't think it's out-of-tone with the scene; given that it plays on her established strength, very strong teeth, I think I would have objected more in a logistical sense to her being able to dodge all of Orwell's blows.

Hypnotised Klaus, pushing log towards razor, nobody had the intelligence to push it themselves: I'm not entirely sure I understand your question? You ask why Klaus had to do it - the point was that by having Klaus technically commit the crime, it would further discredit the Baudelaires and make Sir no longer wish to be their guardians, in which case they would end up in Shirley's hands. The entire plot of TMM, and the plot of Olaf's, was for Klaus under hypnotism to be responsible for so many dreadful accidents that Sir would be willing to hand the children over to any willing guardian who came along.

Children not allowed to work: You're really complaining about this? Really? The characters in the book itself complain about this. Charles is horrified. It's clearly established in-universe that this is unacceptable, but part of the point of the book is that Sir is a cruel taskmaster, and it fits into the whole Dickensian workhouse theme that the book evokes. I'd have been more surprised if they never went near the logs.

[cwm]

Most people I know find themselves bored with TMM because it's essentially the fourth consecutive book with the exact same formula for plot; TAA is much the same but at least introduces a mystery element.

By this point we've already had a baby helping to sail a boat, and will have in the future the Baudelaires successfully passing their exams with one night of revision despite still having little to no sleep, a cafe themed entirely around salmon, a woman so obsessed with fashion that she shuts down the elevator and increases the inconvience of accessing her home a million times in the name of being 'in', a giant lasagna, a school where the teachers teach short pointless stories and the metric system all day, a village with nearly 20,000 largely pointless rules with capital punishment by burning at the stake if you break even one of them, a 13-year-old boy and a baby passing themselves off as two adult women, a baby successfully cooking a meal for five, and throughout the series we have Violet and Klaus exactly understanding what Sunny is saying to the letter every time she uses baby talk. On that basis I'm not convinced eeth vs. sword fighting is that ridiculous.

[Hermes]

One might also mention the marriage plot in the first book; both the way the marriage was brought about and the way it turned out to be void were extremely surreal.

Edit: I think the nullification of the marriage was actually handled better in the movie. The method used there - burning the certificate - wouldn't work in real life either, but it has more of an air of plausibility to it.

[afireinside]

I do kind of see what you mean about how all of the books were a bit surreal, but since I have had no experience in Nuptual Law or sailing then the Tooth vs Sword fight was a bit of a slap in the face after the first three books which while a little improbable you could still imagine it was real. Any of the books after that I am not even mentioning. I am simply saying why the fourth book was a dissapointment compared to the first three.

[Dante]

Of course; you are perfectly within your rights to like or dislike any of the books. I don't think anyone's disputing that TMM was outright cartoonier than the first three books. But some of us are okay with some of the elements you disliked - and vice-versa, I'm sure.

[falsespring]

Personally, I always group the first four books together rather than the first three, catagorized under 'Generic Plots'. There's no real depth to any of the first four books, no VFD, no Sugar Bowl, nothing of the such. They're only really good to read for build up to the 'real' series, in my opinion.

[hieitouyaicedemon]

I remember the sword-fighting really annoying me in TMM (usually I just overlook or smile at Sunny's other exploits.) For some reason, that one bothered me. To be fair, so did the steering of the boat. I've gotten over it now, but I'll agree that at first, it's very out of place.

I didn't mind the Charles thing (other than Charles being very much in danger, of course) because honestly - would YOU want to step in front of a sawmill to push something out of the way from a kid who'd already caused several accidents? I would, I'd like to believe, but you can't blame the workers for hesitating.

Like Dante and so many others have said, my main problem is that the book is so tedious. I don't know why. It's also kind of at that weird midpoint after the opening three (which were, of course, spectacular,) and the introduction of V.F.D. and the Quagmires (new characters = interesting.) It's at a weird place in the series. It's my least favorite book of the group, so don't feel discouraged from reading on to the rest of the series. It gets better, I promise!

[Kount Kelsey]

it wasnt my favorite but i was always wanting ot see what happened next

[Undefined]

If you pretend Sunny has super long teeth that look like swords, it's not half bad.
Alright it is ridiculous.

[Kount Kelsey]

i htin khe did that (lemony) to give the readers a break and be able to just enjoy laugh and have a little laugh once in a while.

[Mijahu]

I assumed that they didn't push the log because it was huge. Trees that are cut into paper are generally very large and would probably be very difficult--if not impossible--for a person, let alone a child, to push.

I do think the teeth/sword fight was ridiculous, though. I mean not because she's a baby, but it's just a stupid concept. I mean unless she REALLY needed braces and her teeth were actually sticking out of her mouth, the sword would still hit her face!

[Dante]

Jan 31, 2009 0:45:19 GMT -5 Mijahu said:

I assumed that they didn't push the log because it was huge. Trees that are cut into paper are generally very large and would probably be very difficult--if not impossible--for a person, let alone a child, to push.

But big enough for a piece of chewing gum attached to some string to pull? I just reread this bit. Violet was being hauled around by Shirley and Foreman Flacutono, Sunny was swordfighting with Dr. Orwell, and the swordfight was in Klaus's way, which is why he had to invent something to save Charles's life rather than walk up and shove the log. The villains were also in Violet and Sunny's way to begin with, and it was Violet and Sunny's attempts to push the log that saw them get grabbed and engaged in a duel. And incidentally, Klaus does push the log several times, under the hypnotic command of the villains (and his sisters); at first it's needed to get it to the saw, and the reason Klaus has to do it is so that the Baudelaires are responsible for Charles's death and so will get thrown out of Sir's care (and into Shirley's). Afterwards, however, the sawing machine takes care of the log-moving. If you reread the sequence, it's all completely justified - albeit an obviously contrived set-up to get Klaus to invent something, since part of the point of TMM is that the siblings use each other's talents (and Sunny, uh, swordfights).

[cwm]

Jan 31, 2009 3:12:59 GMT -5 Dante said:

nd the reason Klaus has to do it is so that the Baudelaires are responsible for Charles's death and so will get thrown out of Sir's care (and into Shirley's).

Now this is the ridiculous part. Surely then Klaus will be guilty of premeditated murder? How are Shirley and Dr. Orwell going to ensure the Baudelaires are handed over to them and not the police?

Then again, he does say, "fortunately, we found out [Shirley's plan to snatch the fortune], so now she has to go back to being a receptionist"...