Duchess R on the island?

[Seymour Glass]

In The End, you hear someone say "We should go back to Winnipeg." I wonder if it's the Duchess of Winnipeg.

[Dante]

I don't think there are many other indications that R. left her post as Duchess, though. Whoever cried out that they should go back to Winnipeg was probably just a citizen of that locale, although it sure would be interesting to write a backstory-related event tying them to the Duchess. The use of "we" together with "return" suggests it refers to a specific set of islanders who arrived from Winnipeg together. Perhaps the Bellamy siblings?

[Hermes]

It does seem that the Duchess' house was destroyed at some point - I've always taken it that this was some years after the unfortunate events, but as so often, it's hard to make out. So she might have taken refuge on the island. But if she is there she must be in disguise - who might she be?

[Christmas Chief]

A disguise could be tricky on an island facilitated by Ishmael, especially since he'd probably recognize her before she had a chance to come up with a good one. As for the quote itself, I think it isn't R., but perhaps some of her associates she sent out to perform some errand or other, and were subsequently shipwrecked on the island.

[korovamilkbar14]

I agree with all of you, I don't think it's R. The line felt like a throwaway reference, really.

I never thought of R as being an actual duchess - that is, I never thought she had any royal duties to perform (I don't recall any specifically mentioned). Similar to the King of Arizona, her name sounded like just a title that doesn't mean much.

[Hermes]

There is a reference in TBL to R suceeding to the position with all its duties, when her mother dies. I suspect, though, that this doesn't mean formal duties such as the Queen might have, but rather the kind of 'duties' that go with a position as a society hostess. (Duchesses - at least British ones - don't have formal duties anyway; but they were traditionally, and still are to an extent, wealthy, and had a significant social position.)

This is still rather different from Olaf - he has a title, but it seems to make no difference to his life.

[Dante]

I never thought to connect R.'s Duchess-ship to Olaf's title before, actually. It'd be interesting to think about whether the title of Count also used to have formal duties associated with V.F.D., before perhaps becoming neglected around the time of Olaf's parents.

[Hermes]

Could be. I've always taken 'Count' just to mean that he's descended from European aristocrats; the title 'Count' isn't used in the British system, so probably wouldn't be part of the established aristocracy in an English-speaking country.

[Seymour Glass]

I don't think Olaf is a real count.

[vksvksvksvks]

I think that person probably has something to do with the dutchess, but it would be hard to believe the dutchess of winnipeg was on the island. Someone would have recognized her, like Ishmael or someone.

[JTB]

I just had a long-shot inkling: what if titles, such as Count, Duchess, and even 'King' (as in King of Arizona), were codewords in V.F.D.? Of course, it's a stretch.

Other titles in the series: Justice, Vice Principal, Vice President (Poe), Elder, Head of Human Resources, Captain, Concierge (not really a title, more of an occupation, but it was used as a 'name' of sorts for the Baudelaires in disguise in TE), Facilitator.

These are titles only, of course. The only royalty I can see is Duchess and King, maybe Count. Thoughts?

[Dante]

It's not a bad idea, but it depends on how it would work - on what you mean by "codewords"? There's little argument that characters with titles like Vice Principal and Head of Human Resources really do hold that position, but I am increasingly interested in the possibility that the more aristocratic titles may have been set up by V.F.D. as social institutions they could use as part of their operations.

[JTB]

Well, perhaps they are codewords for the hierarchy within the organization. For instance, 'King' and 'Queen' could be used for the two most senior members, 'Count' and 'Countess' could be two less important members, and the same goes for Baron, Duke, Lord, possibly Emperor, possibly President, etc.

Although I'm starting to lose faith in the theory seeing as there are only two confirmed instances of this being used - Duchess R & Count Olaf. The King of Arizona was briefly mentioned by Esme - perhaps he is a V.F.D. villain, considering he was meeting with her?

[Isadora]

Jul 21, 2010 19:40:03 GMT -5 JTB said:

I just had a long-shot inkling: what if titles, such as Count, Duchess, and even 'King' (as in King of Arizona), were codewords in V.F.D.?

Interesting. I'm starting to wonder if that's the case .

[Emily]

It certainly could be possible...

I actually wouldn't doubt it!!

Reason for Editing: Moderator Edit: Merging double-post.